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Some advice on pax safety please

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Old 14th Jul 2015, 22:12
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Question Some advice on pax safety please

Evening All,

I am running a scenic flights day at the end of the month at our local flight school.(Full AOC).
The school will be shepherding all of us passengers on the day.

I would like to put this question out to the forum as I'm sure others have done this kind of thing before.Hope it's okay mods.

My question is can you give me any advice on what to watch out for when either Airside, or in your experience with the general public around SEP aircraft ?

I am also wondering when is the best opportunity to get a photo of our guests without getting in the way of safe operations? these photo's make great memento's and drive traffic back to our website.

Any advice for nervous passengers? and while I think of it we get a lot of photographer's on these flights so is there anything that they may need ?

Thanks in advance for any gems of wisdom. I am receiving flight training for every seat I fill and I will take all the advice I can get.

Safe Skies,
Fionn

Last edited by Fionn101; 14th Jul 2015 at 22:13. Reason: Spelling
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Old 14th Jul 2015, 23:40
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In my experience the biggest risk you have with people around aeroplanes is when they are wearing a hat or carrying something light and it gets blown off their head / they drop it then they instinctively start to run after it.

Get photos when you wish but make sure you control them. Don't let them just wander around to take one. People getting their photo taken tend to be looking at the camera while moving into a better posing spot without looking where they are going, the photographer is often looking through the lens and not focussed on what's going on around them. Someone needs to be overseeing the whole thing with an eye to the big picture.

Make sure passengers with cameras in the aircraft use wrist straps.
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Old 15th Jul 2015, 07:17
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Excellent, this is exactly the type of info I'm looking for.
Thanks Aerocat
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Old 15th Jul 2015, 07:47
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Fionn,

You mention "us passengers", so I am taking it you are not a pilot/flying organisation operator.

So, first thing: listen to what the AOC holder tells you. There may be specifics to that aircraft/airfield that are critical.

Second. Never mention airSICKness! Always use phrases such as: if you feel any discomfort.... Say a word and people start to think about it! Once they think about it, you are down that slippery slope!

Third: CAA have a Safety Sense leaflet: Care of Passengers

https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20130121SSL02.pdf

well worth a read.
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Old 15th Jul 2015, 09:55
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Thank you XrayAlpha,

I deliberately called myself pax so as to be treated like a beginner.

Excellent point about airsickness , I will ensure there are bags in the cockpit just in case.

Cheers for the link to the leaflet , I'll have a read of this today.

I am also wondering what sort of Up-Sales I can try , like offering a trial lesson at a discount if the person is hooked after the scenic flight, Or Perhaps a Certificate on completion. All idea's welcomed.

Cheers,
Fionnn
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Old 15th Jul 2015, 17:37
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Speaking as an aviation enthusiast/photographer try to get your plane(s) parked so the punters get a photo opportunity without the need to wander off. If possible have your photographer look over the apron and propose a plan for parking and passenger changeover. For me there is nothing more annoying than trying to get a photo of the plane I have just flown in but the pilot is there with a cover open or dealing with re-fuelling. The ideal solution to this is to allow the pilot some time alone for these checks.
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Old 15th Jul 2015, 19:04
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Advice from aerobatics

I hold an aerobatics rating and as you can imagine some friends want the good old roller coster ride but end up not having the stomach for it. Few things I have learnt is if they feel any discomfort, like a previous post described, they need to tell the pilot rather than keep it to themselves. That's the worst bit because they will be thinking about it constantly and they will make themselfs worse. And the lunch will make its appearance.

Best way to deal with this try to take their attention off their insides. Engage them in pointing things out to you or taking control of the aircraft if your up for that. Just a few minutes and all will be good again. If all else fails give them the sickbag before its too late. One of the things playing on their mind making the situation worse is what if they make a mess. Giving them the sickbag reassures them that they are covered and help the mental side of things.

With regard to nervous pax, a strong confident voice is good. Explain what's going to happen before it does for example "we are just waiting for that guy to land then we can line up on the runway." As you line up, "now we are just waiting for ATC to give us the go. Ok here we go." Your telling them what is happening in simple terms without overly complicating things. Also tell them in the classroom before you go out. Explain the flight like the instructor did before your 1st ever flight.

If you do the classroom bit this is the best time just before you go out to remind them of the standard hazards like the propeller blades and knocking their head on the wing or pitot tube on the 152s

Again don't go into detail brush over it if you will. Short sweet but you made the point and it's in their mind. Happy cheery voice so it's not all down gloomy and taking the fun out of things!

Hope this helps and sorry for the essay. I got carried away!
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Old 15th Jul 2015, 20:09
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As far as airside safety is concerned, we run 15 charity events annually with each welcoming between 25 and 100 sick/handicapped children with their parents.

We create a physical barrier between airside and landside (using portable fences if possible, with red/white tape if nothing else available) with a "gate" in it, guarded by volunteers.

We only allow our guests airside if they are either accompanied by "their" pilot or by an airside marshall (typically a pilot who is not flying that day). And there's a selection of other personell, mainly photographers, who are allowed airside independently.

Everybody who is allowed airside independently (pilots, marshallers, photographers) are required to wear a high-viz vest. This is not because we believe the vest in itself prevents accidents (our events are only held during good Day VFR conditions, where conspicuity is not really an issue), but it allows us to glance at the airside operation and know everything is "in ordnung": Every individual not wearing a vest has to be supervised by someone with a vest. Easy.

Obviously this is augmented by procedures that allow the pilot to communicate whether a prop is "hot" or "cold" and a few other, minor things.

But they physical barrier between airside and landside, the insistence that everybody airside has to know what they're doing or has to be accompanied by someone who does, and the hi-viz vest policy are the most important measures. We are close to having held 100 events by now, all without airside accidents.
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Old 16th Jul 2015, 12:36
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Exactly the sort of stuff I am looking for... keep it coming

@V800 thanks for the photographer tips, I have asked that the pilots park the 2 planes in a V shape and get the group photo before any engine starts.

@Lets Aviat Cheers for that , I'll quick check there are air sick bags. it is this kind of advice I am after , specifically people's mindset in or around propeller aircraft.

@BackPacker , thank you so much , that sounds like a well executed strategy you have going. we are fortunate to be in a fenced environment and we will have marshal's on the day who are knowledgeable airisde.
P.S. it sounds like a wonderful thing you are doing with these aviation days, Good on Ya !

I was concerned with photographer's going wandering for that special shot , I recall a story here on PPrune about a student being lectured because he had gone to the runway threshold to capture a photo of an airplane landing. I can see why they went to get the photo without knowing the dangers involved. it made for sober thinking.

Thanks again for all the advice offered so far, hopefully it makes for an enjoyable day for all.

Fionn
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Old 16th Jul 2015, 17:41
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If your guests are loose airside it is much safer if the prop is not turning. We do a lot of this with helicopters, and there is a significant safety benefit in a full shut-down when you are swapping people out. With all the marshalling you care to think of, it takes moments for a "fun day" to turn into an AAIB investigation and a funeral.


Others will perhaps disagree with me, but the time / fuel cost of a shut down is worth it in my book.
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Old 16th Jul 2015, 18:27
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As far as the photographers are concerned, they need to either have a window open (camera on lead.), or have the glass absolutely spot-less. So a few minutes with the Plexus, inside and out, works wonders. You could also point out that the reflections of Yellow vests on the windows will spoil their photos, so hold the lens near the glass.
You could also practice a wing down side-slip, if they want a photo of something underneath the plane... their house for example. (It might be worth demonstrating this first)
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Old 16th Jul 2015, 21:52
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I used to fly scenic in the Kimberley (Aus) so while it was a long time ago now, I still have to marshal pax to and fro the aircraft. Remember, this is supposed to be fun for you and for them.

First of all, before any pax arrives, brief the other employees/airfield folks near to where you'll be operating as to what you want to do and what you expect. Eg refuelling trucks (if you have them), other pilots, vehicle operators. Ie identify the possible threats before the pax turn up. Know your route to the aircraft and where it's parked. Stash some sickbags onboard!! Do as much of the preflight before the pax are there. Where are you going to fly? Any gotchas? Check the weather Clean the aircraft, polish the windows.

Secondly, as others above have wisely said, brief the pax while in the comparative quiet of the office etc what you expect them to do WRT photos/moving between aircraft etc. It's more often than not the first time they'll be around "small aircraft".

Do you have a uniform? Something smart to wear? Something that shows you have some "authority"? The dreaded hi-vis?

2 examples of crowd control walking to the aircraft. 1. walk so fast they have to more or less trot to keep up. (rather amusing to watch). 2. Initially walk in front to point them in the right way, moving to the back to keep them corralled.

Briefing. Practice it before unleashing it. You want to sound confident. Use phrases like "bumps" not turbulence. Make light of emergency stuff but make sure they know when and how to use the exits and seat belts.

If it's a hot day, folks get air sick a lot quicker. Keep a breeze blowing for as long as possible while on the ground, if it's been a bumpy (see what I did there?) arrival and landing, get the breeze going ASAP (window, air con etc).

Remember, don't be afraid to pull the pin on the flight if the weather or any thing else is marginal. There's always tomorrow.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 09:42
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Excellent comments Redsnail, Phiggs and JohnR81 , thank you so much.

JohnR81 I could not have written it better myself.
As I pay the monthly insurance bill it is a high priority for me to keep it clean for insurance reasons. I would rather have 20 day's with higher operating costs than one day out with a higher insurance cost !

Shutdown for safety is very cost effective in our C172's.

PhiggsBroadband, thank you too. I am no photographer and I didn't think about internal reflections from reflective material. Someone is about to earn €10 and 20 mins of Plexus training ;-)

I will also remind our pilots that slide-slipping is strictly prohibited, thanks again for the reminder.

Redsnail , another thank you for taking the time out to advise , Marshaling will be done by the flight school. I have the pax going in groups of 3 to the aircraft. led by a ground staffer. 2 planes will be in operation flying 30 min sortie's 15 mins apart. so I don't expect more than 4 people airside at any one time. I will try to keep the numbers down airside.

Great idea regarding phraseology. I will change my wording to read bumpy air, friendly ATC accordingly.

I have said shirt and epaulette's , and I find a clipboard and a smile to be a great addition to the uniform. Thanks again for your comments

Some Sage advice on cancelling everything for weather. I have an advantage in my operation that the guests pay separately for the coach and scenic flight, so if the weather cancels the flying then we give them a tour of the air museum for photos and off down to the local harbour for chips and a pier walk or you can stay in the pub.
We still make a few euro on the coach and it removes the 'get there-itis'. Last day out we cancelled the guests were delighted at getting some facebook profile photos in the museum and off they went happily.


I'm delighted I asked this questions here now, so many additions to the checklist.

Enjoy your weekend,
Fionn
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 21:00
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I am running a scenic flights day at the end of the month at our local flight school.(Full AOC).
If you have an AOC your operations manual should detail how you are to conduct pleasure flying and you need to comply with that. In particular if passengers may be boarded with the engines running, a dangerous practice in my opinion unless very carefully supervised.

The biggest danger are children, some of whom have been brought up to run off anywhere without supervision. Adults should always be holding young children's hands while walking to the aircraft and parents need reminding of tbe dangers of propellers.

You dont say what aircraft you are using but aircraft with sliding canopies can be dangerous and on no account should passengers board these aircraft with the engine running as it is possible to fall forward off the wing into the prop.

Ive known of a waiting child to run out to a returning aircraft and run into the prop in front of her father so the dangers exist on the return as well as the departure. Strict handling of passengers is essential at anytime they are airside.

Aircraft should always be positioned so that the path to and from the door is away from the propeller area and passengers need just as much supervision leaving the aircraft as boarding it which should be done in separate waves
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 09:54
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some excellent advice Pull What.
I am the tour operator (and PPL member of the flying club) and it is my local club that have the AOC and the know how.

I wanted to ask here about what else I could watch out for , mainly because I am not the first to do this and I prefer to hear of other experience's with the public.

Having the aircraft door between the pax than the prop might seem like common sense, but it only takes a busy pilot to forget once to park tail-into-terminal and we have an accident. excellent nugget of info to watch for.

We have a tour of the hangar after the scenic flight and just before lunch,
I am reading the Wikipedia page on Cessna aircraft but I would like a story or some interesting facts about Cessna 172 or 182 if anyone has any ?

why were 40 flaps removed ? and what famous aviators used Cessna in the early days ?

thanks again everyone for comments , 100% discount applies to forum members ;-)

Enjoy your weekend,
Fionn
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 10:42
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I am also wondering what sort of Up-Sales I can try , like offering a trial lesson at a discount if the person is hooked after the scenic flight, Or Perhaps a Certificate on completion. All idea's welcomed.
Offer a time-limited (3 months?) discount for the 1st (easy) lesson in the regular training methodology (which is typically a get-to-know lesson from the left seat anyway).

Certification of Completion - yes, preferably with the photo of the airfield or aircraft on it, and the participant's name.

Another idea is that you give small value time-limited vouchers for the participants, that can only be used for bringing someone else for a similar flight (scenic or training). So if they bring in a friend, or someone else in their family (not present on any events before), those will get the small symbolic discount from the list price. People love to share experiences, so use this to expand your reach and number of visitors

Memorabilia - if you have some obsolete stuff in your hangars, you might bring them forward onto a table.= for dispaly. If there is someone who can tel good stories about no longer functioning flight instrument (which aircraft it was in, who flew it, what adventures this a/c had), there is a chance that 1 or 2 guests would like to take them home a souvenirs just make sure the paperwork is done correctly, so it doesn't end up in another airplane via the black market.
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Old 11th Aug 2015, 09:56
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Cheers to you all

Hi All,
I wanted to pop back and say thanks again for all the advice.
Every one of our guests survived the day with only smiles to show, and one passenger booked in for their intro lesson :-)

we did keep the propeller furthest from the terminal door and led our pax out to the airplane with a forward and rear guard.

The café gave me free food and tea for the extra business and I earned a few free flying hours from our school so I cannot complain at all.

truly indebted to this forum for all the wise words, you know who you are.

hopefully I have attached the picture correctly , this is our first group of pax on their hangar tour , and my authorative shirt was discarded for a cooling t-shirt RedSnail as it was well over 10degree's on Saturday last !


DropShots? - Free Video Hosting & Photo Sharing; No Advertising. Upload Now!

Safe Skies,
Fionn
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 13:06
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Hi Everyone,
Can I start by thanking everyone for previous advice received, we are about to go into year 3 of operation and I never would have believed it at the start :-)

This weekend I have a number of wheelchair users coming flying, and I am wondering if there are any tips for helping them aboard our C172.

The heaviest PAX is 13 stone (82kg) and really excited about this weekend.

I know I'm not the first to load such precious cargo in to a C172 , so all advice appreciated.
I'm type rated to lift about 80kg fwiw

cheers,
Fionn
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 14:44
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Fionn, it's probably a bit too short notice, but what helps a lot when flying handicapped people, is a vacuum mattress.

We use these a lot for handicapped kids who's ability to sit straight up is marginal. They're basically mattresses filled with rubber granulate. You put the mattress in first, put the pax on it, and shake it about a bit so that everything sets well. With the help of a few people you fold the various sides and ends either against the body of the pax, for support, or away so it doesn't interfere with the aircraft controls. (Most often though, these pax are flown in the back.)

You then connect a (hand-operated or electric) pump to the vent and suck the air out of the mattress. Similar to a bag of coffee, this squeezes all the rubber granulate bits together and ensures the mattress cannot change shape anymore. This will give the pax excellent support during the flight.

The ones we have (our charity has three by now) are from RedVac.

RedVac Catalogue - Kohlbrat & Bunz - PDF Catalogue | Technical Documentation

The first one we got was the straight 200x70 (or so) mattress. We found that this one is too big for sitting upright. We placed a special order for a 150x70 or so mattress, with indentations for the shoulder belts. That's the one we use most often in a C172 or similar.

Another tip is something you've probably already figured out. Handicapped people are most easily flown in a high-wing aircraft such as a C172 or C182.

And yet another: Make sure you have a few luggage tags (with a bit of rubber band or so attached) available. When a pax is rolled to an aircraft in his own wheelchair, tag the wheelchair with the callsign of the aircraft. When the aircraft returns, you know which wheelchair to grab and roll to the aircraft.
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Old 22nd Nov 2017, 23:12
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Fionn,

One thing I do when briefing passengers is mention that they might hear a buzzer during the landing flare, which indicates that we have reached the speed for landing. I don’t mention the word “stall”. In the case of people who’ve never flown in a light aircraft, I’ll even let them hear the noise during the walk around.

I also never use sideslips when flying with non-pilot passengers.
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