PPL airfield choice question

[G-VCED]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice.

I am about to start my PPL. I've set a goal to obtain it by the end of May 2016.

Should West Atlantic run another Cadet programme (open to PPL holders), I aim to apply.

I have a choice of training at East Midlands Airport (£135p/h) or Nottingham Tollerton (£110p/h).

Is it an advantage in the long run, both for your skills as a Pilot and your CV to have experience of using Air Traffic Control at a larger airport like East Midlands?

Economics is important and I'm just trying to establish if the extra £25 a lesson is money well spent over Nottingham Tollerton.

Thanks to hear

[Dash8driver1312]

The more important thing is the quality of the school.

I trained at Southend (EGMC) before it became busy again to PPL level, and at Stapleford to CPL level. Both offered their respective positives and negatives. At Southend, clubs were having you fly big, wide, airliner type circuits, you had a Tower and an Approach control, and lots of room. Good for keeping things simple. At Stapleford with its Radio service (no active control), you had to be more mindful of other traffic and be more flexible. Just a pair of examples there...I am sure others will have similar tales.

But really, the quality of the club and the actual training available should be your guiding light.

Good luck with the training and fly safe!

[hazell270]

My personal opinion is although East Mids is good for RT practice and flying in class D airspace, it's a little restrictive too. Orbiting and holding for the jets can eat up your lessons which aren't cheap. Taking up valuable learning time.

You can get uninterrupted circuits done at smaller fields which is better when your hitting the circuit working on landings, take offs etc.

Landing on nearly 3000m of Tarmac is no challenge compared to landing on smaller, narrower strips. Part of the fun of PPL flying is the ability to visit little airfields, some of which have very short runways. Learning from early on the skill of landing at the right speed in the right place to stop in a short distance is a good skill to master. Airfields will smaller strips drill this into you from the start because if they don't, you'll be cutting the hedges at the stopend of the runway!

Nottingham is Air to Ground too, which I think helps with building decision making skills as PIC. You are in control, you decide if you enter the runway and take off etc. East Mids, you'll just get told what to do and where to go. Just helps you gain confidence in making decisions.

It won't make a difference where you did your PPL when it comes to getting a job. Just because you've learnt at EMA won't give you any advantage over someone who learnt at Notts.

I also agree, quality of the school and instructor should be the deciding factor. Get a good instructor and it won't matter where you fly out of.

Just my own thoughts, and by no means gospel. Whichever one you chose have fun and all the best with the flying.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by hazell270

I also agree, quality of the school and instructor should be the deciding factor. Get a good instructor and it won't matter where you fly out of.

.

Exactly. I would suggest that the hourly rate of the airplane is the least important predictor of the total cost of the license, how good your instructor is and how hard you work will be the most important determinator of your cost and training success.

How busy the airport is does not make a significant difference in the quality of your training, although smaller less busy airports will allow you to get more training done in each hour.

It is your money and you are the customer. Do your research, talk to present and past students and have a good sit down with whoever you get assigned to teach you. Your instructor should be organized and have a plan for every flight including a good pre and post flight briefing.

[tmmorris]

BPF of course has the luxury of operating in a cheaper environment...

I'd say go for small and quiet for the PPL, somewhere with small circuits to keep the cost down. And check if you're paying Hobbs time or takeoff to touchdown, too. The cumulative effect of 15-minute circuits and 10 minute wait at the holding point will get expensive.

Circuits at my home base are 4 minutes... Fun if busy. Somewhere in between would be good!

Then when you have the PPL and the spare mental capacity, go somewhere busier.

My own trajectory was Welshpool - Oxford - Benson which was quite a good incremental process!

[londonblue]

Many years ago I asked a recently retired BA long haul captain the same question. His answer was go for the cheapest! His reasoning was that by the time you do your CPL and IR you'll have had to go through the whole lot anyway, and there's no need to waste money.

For clarity, I'm not saying that's my opinion, I'm just telling you what I was told. However, you've probably asked this question in the wrong forum. If your goal is to become a commercial pilot, then I would ask them in one of the other fora on this site which they consider to be best. I suspect you'll get as many opinions as replies, but it's probably the better place to ask.

[arelix]

Many years ago I asked a recently retired BA long haul captain the same question. His answer was go for the cheapest! His reasoning was that by the time you do your CPL and IR you'll have had to go through the whole lot anyway, and there's no need to waste money

Absolutely +1

PPL at Nottingham, IR(R) at east mids, all points covered.

[phiggsbroadband]

You will most likely find that the time taken to complete your PPL is dis-proportionate to the cost per hour, so with the lower cost option you are likely to fly on more occasions.... So you could finish your PPL by the start of next year.
Also please ask if E.Midlands allows circuits, or do they go to a different field for the Touch and Go training. For instance... Liverpool is so crowded that some of their aircraft train at Hawarden or Sleap.

[golfbananajam]

If you have considered EMA and Nottingham then perhaps you should look at Leicester too

[Jan Olieslagers]

What's your age? There are exceptions, of course, but generally you will need more hours if you are "less young", the more reason to go with the least expensive operation.

[thing]

If you have considered EMA and Nottingham then perhaps you should look at Leicester too

Gamston too if you're at the north end of Nottingham. Air to Ground but a busy airfield with biz jets to choppers.

FWIW I trained for power in a full ATC environment. You get good on the radio with procedures and all the other guff but the first time I flew into a short strip I was bricking it, not because it was a short strip but because no one spoke to me when I called the a/g frequency!

It's the other way round with guys who learn to fly at a grass strip with a couple of movements a decade. They tend to avoid full ATC airfields and go round the edge of class D. This is a generalisation by the way, I know it doesn't apply to everyone.

[Whirlybird]

I learned at Welshpool - shortish runway, little traffic, A/G radio. Advantages - I learned to think for myself and make my own decisions, got good at finding small airfields, learned to land on shortish runways. Disadvantages - I was scared of traffic, also of ATC. But I flew to other places later on, and got over it.

A friend of mine learned at about the same time at Liverpool. He was happy mixing it with the big boys and dealing with ATC. But he didn't even want to fly to Welshpool, definitely not land there, and when he tried, he couldn't find the airfield! I daresay he learned about small airfields later on too.

You learn different things at different airfields; it's horses for courses. You'll go to other types of airfields during the PPL course, and you can do more of that when you get your PPL - taking a more experienced pilot if you feel you need advice and moral support. As others have said, this is not really a major issue. Pick the school you like best, and particularly an instructor you feel you can get on with. That can make a lot of difference.

But while you're considering airfields in that area, why not think of Tatenhill - lovely place.

[phiggsbroadband]

Think of it this way....
To obtain your PPL you will have needed to do at least 140 Touch and Goes.


At Liverpool an hour in the circuit could be interrupted several times by CATs. Hawarden requires a 1000ft climb before turning crosswind, (to avoid Kinnerton.), so maybe 6 ccts/hr possible.
Welshpool has a circuit height of 1500ft, (to avoid the hills.) maybe this reduces the ccts/hr to 4 or 5.
Sleap has a normal 1000ft circuit, and low-level wet weather circuits are possible, so maybe 10 ccts/hr if you keep it tight. (well inside Wem.)


Other airfields will have similar restrictions, North Coates for example, requires clearance through the very active RAF bombing practice range....
.

[G-VCED]

Just got back from a busy week in Antwerp, so please excuse the late response.

Thank you all for the detailed responses, there is some serious wisdom being shared here and I really enjoyed reading them. I'm 25 by the way!

To me, it appears there are arguments for both sides of the coin, training at EMA or not. However training at Nottingham appears to have the consensus for my current needs, and perhaps getting the IR at East Midlands Airport later on, blending the best of both worlds.

I did visit Sherwood Flying School at Nottingham and spent close to 45 minutes talking to the CFI, who was a friendly and knowledgeable chap. I did get a good vibe from the school. I have visited others where I didn't get as good impression.

Leicester is a little bit too far from my neck of the woods, it would be around a 60 mile round trip. However, I will check out Gamston & Tatenhill also.

July is when I aim to begin, so thank you all for your best wishes and I hope the thread comes in useful to others in the future.

[TheEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by G-VCED

I did visit Sherwood Flying School at Nottingham and spent close to 45 minutes talking to the CFI, who was a friendly and knowledgeable chap. I did get a good vibe from the school. I have visited others where I didn't get as good impression.

Just finished my PPL at a school with quite a high turnover of instructors. From that experience my view is that the vibe and relationship with instructors is absolutely crucial to good learning, so if you have found a place where you like that, my opinion would be to go for it.

On your original question about ATC experience I learnt at an airfield with Air/Ground only. I actually think it helped me with situational awareness to be solely responsible for my own movements...you realise very quickly you just can't get away with poor lookout/awareness when there's noone else there monitoring you on a radar screen. I found it easy to make the change to dealing with full ATC and hopefully still keep my good awareness habits. Not sure the transition would have been so easy the other way around.

Good luck :-)

[thing]

you realise very quickly you just can't get away with poor lookout/awareness when there's noone else there monitoring you on a radar screen.

As someone who learned at and has done most of his flying from a full ATC airfield you can take it from me that you still need eyes in the back of your head.

I've been doing a lot of flying from an a/g airfield since last year for various reasons and I would say your SA and lookout needs to be just the same whatever sort of airfield you fly into/from.

[TheEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by thing

I would say your SA and lookout needs to be just the same whatever sort of airfield you fly into/from.

Absolutely - if it came across any other way I apologise. I'm just saying that for me an A/G airfield was a good learning environment and I didn't find it hard to then go to places with full ATC, since the opening question expressed a concern about that.