Rt pratical exam help
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'contact'...
...is phraseology that can be used via any ATCO at an air traffic agency to indicate 'your details have been passed', not just radar 2 radar.
Some helpful controllers/FISOs to pilots who fly relatively infrequently, will add 'they have your details'. IMO these controllers are helping such pilots as the thread starter, and their fellow ATC colleagues, of whatever their location/unit or piloting experience.
Adding notions of 'prenote' are pure ATC issues, which, of course I fully understand, and help the thread starter, not a jot.
My previous post was in the name of providing some guidance to an individual, who is obviously conscientious, and keen to learn, and took the trouble to ASK.
Notions of 'prenote' are pure ATC issues, and have other forums on PPRUNE, and elsewhere for discussion.
Some helpful controllers/FISOs to pilots who fly relatively infrequently, will add 'they have your details'. IMO these controllers are helping such pilots as the thread starter, and their fellow ATC colleagues, of whatever their location/unit or piloting experience.
Adding notions of 'prenote' are pure ATC issues, which, of course I fully understand, and help the thread starter, not a jot.
My previous post was in the name of providing some guidance to an individual, who is obviously conscientious, and keen to learn, and took the trouble to ASK.
Notions of 'prenote' are pure ATC issues, and have other forums on PPRUNE, and elsewhere for discussion.
I ve either learned something new or re-learned something I'd forgotten, as regards contact, continue, and freecall
A very useful group of responses. (2000+ hours solo, 30+ in 2015)
A very useful group of responses. (2000+ hours solo, 30+ in 2015)
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I e just done my practical RT,
And I asked the aerodrome before my destination if they could give me a weather report for my destination, basically they said conditions were ok,
So I changed frequency and radio ahead, went through the normal stuff, they replied "report final" But when I thought it was all going well and nearly finished after reporting final, they said there was a aircraft on the runway with a collapsed nose gear, (crafty buggers) so I had to do a bit of quick thinking and reroute to the previous aerodrome.
Be prepared!
But I wouldn't worry too much, it's very easy if you have a basic understanding of the radio.
And I asked the aerodrome before my destination if they could give me a weather report for my destination, basically they said conditions were ok,
So I changed frequency and radio ahead, went through the normal stuff, they replied "report final" But when I thought it was all going well and nearly finished after reporting final, they said there was a aircraft on the runway with a collapsed nose gear, (crafty buggers) so I had to do a bit of quick thinking and reroute to the previous aerodrome.
Be prepared!
But I wouldn't worry too much, it's very easy if you have a basic understanding of the radio.
My recollection of doing the RT practical (I probably took it in the first 3 years after it first came in in the early 90s mind you, so much may have changed) was that so long as you were clear and didn't foul up the mayday call, the examiner would be pretty forgiving.
G
G
The OP wants to pass an RT test. He needs to know the correct current phraseology from the CAP - currently amendment 5 to Edition 21 (effective 28 May 15) - not advice based on personal experience.
Last edited by Background Noise; 16th Jun 2015 at 22:10.
My recollection of doing the RT practical (I probably took it in the first 3 years after it first came in in the early 90s mind you, so much may have changed) was that so long as you were clear and didn't foul up the mayday call, the examiner would be pretty forgiving.
"First came in in the early 90s..."?
2 s
the initial Freecall would wisely be transmitted 'Odiham G-ABCD'. The controller may then ask for your details by return
Initial Call – VFR Flight
3.28 Normally, the initial call to an ATS unit should only include the minimum
information needed to establish:
1. The service that an enroute flight requires; or
2. The clearance/information that a joining or departing flight requires.
Westbury Approach, G-ABCD,
Request (type of service)
Westbury Tower, G-ABCD,
Request join
Odiham G-ABCD
Request diversion to Odiham
3.28 Normally, the initial call to an ATS unit should only include the minimum
information needed to establish:
1. The service that an enroute flight requires; or
2. The clearance/information that a joining or departing flight requires.
Westbury Approach, G-ABCD,
Request (type of service)
Westbury Tower, G-ABCD,
Request join
Odiham G-ABCD
Request diversion to Odiham
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I did mine in 1983.
The practical exam did change slightly around 1989/90 to get rid of airways joining and leaving RTF procedures after some lobbying from the PPL schools that a PPL without an IR could not legally fly in airways.
Since then JAA and EASA have gone and come, so whether the thread starter may now need to learn the above procedures, I do not know.
The practical exam did change slightly around 1989/90 to get rid of airways joining and leaving RTF procedures after some lobbying from the PPL schools that a PPL without an IR could not legally fly in airways.
Since then JAA and EASA have gone and come, so whether the thread starter may now need to learn the above procedures, I do not know.
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'Shall', 'May', 'Advised', 'Normally'?
Hi Whopity.
At the time of my initial UK RTF practical exam, and for a number of years thereafter the only 'Shall' with regards to a request at initial contact was 'Request MATZ penetration'.
Given the aviation regulatory hegemonies' coming, going, coming, "Waiting for Godot" stylee, does 'Normally' now mean 'Advised' or 'Shall'?
IMO, unless there is a specific requirement for phraseology at a particular juncture, then any RTF Examiner who marks down a candidate for an initial call that contains Unit c/s, followed by Flight c/s only is being churlish and pedantic.
Dear thread starter, thanks for taking the trouble to ASK.
At the time of my initial UK RTF practical exam, and for a number of years thereafter the only 'Shall' with regards to a request at initial contact was 'Request MATZ penetration'.
Given the aviation regulatory hegemonies' coming, going, coming, "Waiting for Godot" stylee, does 'Normally' now mean 'Advised' or 'Shall'?
IMO, unless there is a specific requirement for phraseology at a particular juncture, then any RTF Examiner who marks down a candidate for an initial call that contains Unit c/s, followed by Flight c/s only is being churlish and pedantic.
Dear thread starter, thanks for taking the trouble to ASK.
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Well Luda are you suitably confused?
First comment is please do not think all RT examiners have mastered CAP 413, they havnt!
You may want to consider
Student flights
2.33 On initial contact, student pilots who are flying solo shall use the callsign
prefix ‘STUDENT’.
Flying instructors should be well aware of this call, especially those who claim to understand duty of care!!
As 99% of people I examine have not got a PPL(which I would imagine you havnt) I expect them to use the above. It also proves they have read CAP 413 which clearly some of tbe respondents to your post havnt!!
If you treat the test as a practical exercise why would you just request a diversion to Odiham because of weather? Your first call in fact would surely be a request for the weather at your chosen destination, little point diverting to an airfield where the weather conditions may be worse than your original destination. Using the controllers knowledge and information is also an important part of CRM. The controller will most likely have a much better idea of suitable alternatives weather wise than you will.
You should also really know how to temporarily leave the frequency and obtain weather from the FIR frequency(not part of the RT test)
If you are receiving a LARS service your diversion call would need to include the word 'request' if you were inside controlled airspace but is technically not required if you are in Class G airspace but it would be advisable to check with the controller before making large heading changes.
How would your alternate know you were coming on first call?
Your first call should make that clear
3.28 Normally, the initial call to an ATS unit should only include the minimum
information needed to establish:
1. The service that an enroute flight requires; or
2. The clearance/information that a joining or departing flight requires.
But the exact detail of that call would be dependent of what type of airspace you were going to have to transit/penetrate to get to the alternate.
"Request join" may be suitable at Popham but might not go down so well at Manchester International!
Every possible call is not contained within CAP413 so some common sense is needed too, unfortunately that can be difficult to find on the internet sometimes.
Quite correct and instructors, especially, should not be encouraging this sort of RT
You should also read this before your test
https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20130121SSL08.pdf although some of it is out of date
I should also add that a weather diversion isnt necessarily an emergency, it could be just that the crosswind was out of limits. Select a diversion that is appropriate to your situation, a busy military airfield may not be best pleased to see you as a result of a non emergency diversion.
First comment is please do not think all RT examiners have mastered CAP 413, they havnt!
You may want to consider
Student flights
2.33 On initial contact, student pilots who are flying solo shall use the callsign
prefix ‘STUDENT’.
Flying instructors should be well aware of this call, especially those who claim to understand duty of care!!
As 99% of people I examine have not got a PPL(which I would imagine you havnt) I expect them to use the above. It also proves they have read CAP 413 which clearly some of tbe respondents to your post havnt!!
If you treat the test as a practical exercise why would you just request a diversion to Odiham because of weather? Your first call in fact would surely be a request for the weather at your chosen destination, little point diverting to an airfield where the weather conditions may be worse than your original destination. Using the controllers knowledge and information is also an important part of CRM. The controller will most likely have a much better idea of suitable alternatives weather wise than you will.
You should also really know how to temporarily leave the frequency and obtain weather from the FIR frequency(not part of the RT test)
If you are receiving a LARS service your diversion call would need to include the word 'request' if you were inside controlled airspace but is technically not required if you are in Class G airspace but it would be advisable to check with the controller before making large heading changes.
How would your alternate know you were coming on first call?
Your first call should make that clear
3.28 Normally, the initial call to an ATS unit should only include the minimum
information needed to establish:
1. The service that an enroute flight requires; or
2. The clearance/information that a joining or departing flight requires.
But the exact detail of that call would be dependent of what type of airspace you were going to have to transit/penetrate to get to the alternate.
"Request join" may be suitable at Popham but might not go down so well at Manchester International!
Every possible call is not contained within CAP413 so some common sense is needed too, unfortunately that can be difficult to find on the internet sometimes.
Forget garbage such as "thanks for your help" - you are supposed to be demonstrating accurate communication.
You should also read this before your test
https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/20130121SSL08.pdf although some of it is out of date
I should also add that a weather diversion isnt necessarily an emergency, it could be just that the crosswind was out of limits. Select a diversion that is appropriate to your situation, a busy military airfield may not be best pleased to see you as a result of a non emergency diversion.
Last edited by Pull what; 18th Jun 2015 at 10:16.
Regarding "thanks for your help", etc.
Yes, don't do it in an exam.
Out there in the real world, if the RT bandwidth is quiet, the occasional pleasantry does no harm.
If the bandwidth is busy, use absolutely minimum number of words.
G
Yes, don't do it in an exam.
Out there in the real world, if the RT bandwidth is quiet, the occasional pleasantry does no harm.
If the bandwidth is busy, use absolutely minimum number of words.
G
