Logging Shared P1/PIC Time in Log Book

[kevkdg]

Hi,


I'm not asking about the rights or wrongs of changing PIC halfway through a single leg flight in a single crew SEP, but rather how you would reflect this in the log book.

My log book has a column for "Departure time" and "Arrival time" and columns for "In Command" and "Dual / P2".

If Take Off is at 09:00 and Landing at 11:00 and the flight time PIC/P1 is shared 50/50 with a formal handover (fully dual controlled aircraft), does each pilot book as follows:

Option 1:

Pilot "A" Departure Time 09:00 Arrival Time 10:00 (1 hour in the "in Command" column - with appropriate comments)
and
Pilot "B" Departure Time 10:00 Arrival Time 11:00 (1 hour in the "in Command" column - with appropriate comments)

OR

Option 2:

Pilot "A" Departure Time 09:00 Arrival Time 11:00 (BUT only 1 hour in the "in Command" column - with appropriate comments)
and
Pilot "B" Departure Time 09:00 Arrival Time 11:00 (BUT only 1 hour in the "in Command" column - with appropriate comments)

I understand that nothing can be booked as P2 in either option for a single crew SEP in this scenario.

The reason I ask is due to the log book column names being Departure Time and Arrival Time.

Regards

Kevin

[Mach Jump]

Hi Kevin.

Option 2 would be the correct way to log the time.


MJ

[kevkdg]

Cheers


But oh bugger.... I have logged 20 or so shared PIC flights...

BUT looking back in my log book I entered them using Option 1, and in the "comments" kept a track of the Take off and Landing Time, as I seem to recall I wanted the start and end times in the "departure" and "arrival" columns to tally with my "in Command" column entry. However, I can now see this was probably illogical.

Now, do I get out the Tip-Ex and amend those entries.... or just set off on the right track going forward.. The OCD in me is reaching for the Tip Ex.

I have never logged a leg of a flight where I simply did not touch the controls. I have a friend in my syndicate who logs all his passenger time as P2.


I was recently a passenger in a Ximango Motor Glider flight, and although flew it in the cruise for some time would not dream of logging it as P1/PIC simply because I doubt I would have been insured as PIC.

[Mach Jump]

If what you did was made clear in the 'Remarks', and you only logged the hours to which you were entitled, I wouldn't mess up your logbook for the sake of 'administrative correctness' Just carry on with the correct method of recording.


MJ

[kevkdg]

Thanks MJ for the replies

[bingofuel]

What name is going into the tech log and who is signing for the aircraft as commander?

[piperarcher]

When I was flying with someone else and sharing as P1, I went for option 1. Largely because it matched the aircraft techlog and any semi-automated system that calculates times based on departure or arrival times would produce different numbers. I don't think either is illegal, but if you are in a syndicate, I guess all group members need to be aligned and using the same option

[PA28181]

Forget your option 1 it will not reflect the true flight times

Op 2 is the proper, the crucial thing is you only log your P1 time and the date it occurred.

It is acceptable to make a number of flights in a day (If from same airfield and not landing away as if a FI just bashing the circuit all day) and just log the total P1 time in the appropriate column.

[kevkdg]

I have been logging as per Option 1, but putting the actual take off and landing times in the remarks column. At least my "In Command" time logged is accurate, which it is under either Option 1 or 2.

[PA28181]

The fact you didn't land at 10:00 anywhere is something that needs sorting......assuming that's a true scenario. Example log book shows landing at Sandown 10:00 DD/MM/YYYY but no actual record of it exists, it could be interpreted as false entry? sounds harsh but may be true I don't know.

[kevkdg]

I agree, so going forward I will use Option 2.


Was thinking of amended existing entries, but as my remarks column for each entry records the take off and landing times, it should be easily cross referenced if ever anyone bothered, which I can't see they would.

[Camargue]

why log take off and landing times??

no need for any remarks, just log the time you were P1

[PA28181]

why log take off and landing times??

Well one very good reason is to differentiate night flying from day..................it helps when working out which column to put it in.

[cavortingcheetah]

But, by the same logic that allows you to split a single crew flight into two pilots taking credit for the flight, why don't you each just log the whole thing as P1?

[PA28181]

But, by the same logic that allows you to split a single crew flight into two pilots taking credit for the flight, why don't you each just log the whole thing as P1?

So each does 1/2 hr from a 1 hour flight and each logs 1 hour P1. Making it a two hour flight.

Is that what you are really saying?

[worrab]

why log take off and landing times??

It's one of the parts of your logbook which is actually auditable. There has been at least one court case where the t/o and ldg figures were found not to match and a successful prosecution resulted.

[PA28181]

I agree with that upto a point. This an activity which like no other has a huge paper/audit trail, except when landing/taking off from farmers fields or your own strip where you are the only guardian of the truth in your personal and aircraft log books......

[Camargue]

Worrab,

Interesting point

I've never logged them in 26 years and for most GA that must really be splitting hairs!

And I agree with post above, a significant amount of flying I done in the past will have virtually no audit trail at all

[PA28181]

Purely academic. Do you have a night rating?

[Camargue]

I don't. I guess night flying makes a difference but never really thought about it.

I've just never logged take off/landing times and no one has ever commented on it.