SR22 Parachute Deployment - Remarkable Video
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As soon as the word ferry is mentioned forget anything the OEM has said about both performance and how its should work.
its CofG will be way out, its weight will be way out.
Personally anything that has been ferried I would be extremely suspect of stress strain history.
Once watched a C172 take off with the whole of the rear cabin full of fuel for a trans atlantic. Plus raft and all the rest of the gubbins.
Used the whole length of a 2000m runway at sea level and 10degs C and then limped into the air and climbed away at 50-100ft rate of climb.
its CofG will be way out, its weight will be way out.
Personally anything that has been ferried I would be extremely suspect of stress strain history.
Once watched a C172 take off with the whole of the rear cabin full of fuel for a trans atlantic. Plus raft and all the rest of the gubbins.
Used the whole length of a 2000m runway at sea level and 10degs C and then limped into the air and climbed away at 50-100ft rate of climb.
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A responsible ferry pilot may have a higher gross weight in some circumstances, but will have a C of G where it should be. It will probably be aft, as ferry tank will be burned during the flight to move the C of G back toward forward, but I very much doubt they would fly out of limits approved by the authority for that flight.
Some aircraft, including many 172's. are permitted to fly at 130% of their gross weight for ferry, with specified restrictions. When doing so, pilots tend to use lots more runway voluntarily.
Some aircraft, including many 172's. are permitted to fly at 130% of their gross weight for ferry, with specified restrictions. When doing so, pilots tend to use lots more runway voluntarily.
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A responsible ferry pilot
then you get idiots like.
http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...rry-pilot.html
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007
You're right: the deployment was slower than it should have been and I'm sure Cirrus will be looking at that. That said, it still made it to horizontal under the chute in just over 400 feet of altitude loss.
The aircraft was almost certainly over max weight and will have had a permit for that. The CG question is not so straightforward as the problem with the ferry tank will have meant that the pilot was not draining it as he flew to the rescue ship. I don't know whether that would have had any influence on the CG at the time of the deployment or if it would have made a difference to the chute extraction.
FWIW I know the company doing the ferry flight quite well: they are extremely professional about everything they do and are also a leading Cirrus training company. In fact I did my own IR with them.
You're right: the deployment was slower than it should have been and I'm sure Cirrus will be looking at that. That said, it still made it to horizontal under the chute in just over 400 feet of altitude loss.
The aircraft was almost certainly over max weight and will have had a permit for that. The CG question is not so straightforward as the problem with the ferry tank will have meant that the pilot was not draining it as he flew to the rescue ship. I don't know whether that would have had any influence on the CG at the time of the deployment or if it would have made a difference to the chute extraction.
FWIW I know the company doing the ferry flight quite well: they are extremely professional about everything they do and are also a leading Cirrus training company. In fact I did my own IR with them.
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FWIW I know the company doing the ferry flight quite well: they are extremely professional about everything they do and are also a leading Cirrus training company. In fact I did my own IR with them.
Irrelevant but I did 2 ferries with them as P2 and P1 under instruction from Rochester UK to New York in an SR22 NA and a SR22 Turbo to Jordan, both involved long sea crossings but slightly different temperatures.
DO NOT use Robert Weaver as a ferry pilot
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MJ I do not know about other Air frames but as far as Cirrus are concerned the transatlantic ferry's need no modification and have enough range for the Iceland & Greenland Route, it is just the Australian ones as far as I know that need extra tanks and while substantially over gross weight I have never heard of any opinion it would effect the Air frame I also believe Cirrus support this opinion.
This particular ferry appears to be scuppered by a basic valve failure, I have no idea if they need to use specific approved valves or can literally pick any industrial valve of the shelf, pictures I have seen of Ferry tank configuration in the past do look like fairly random bits of kit plumbed in.
This particular ferry appears to be scuppered by a basic valve failure, I have no idea if they need to use specific approved valves or can literally pick any industrial valve of the shelf, pictures I have seen of Ferry tank configuration in the past do look like fairly random bits of kit plumbed in.
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Its most likely as said that the vent valve to allow air in so the fuel can come out either wasn't open or wasn't working.
The line into the main fuel system isn't very technical for a gravity feed if you have a fuel sector in the cockpit. Some just shut one of the tank lines with a pair of mole grips then connect with a male to male brass tube connector and when the ferry tank is finished swap to the other tank and then connect it back in and remove the mole grips. The ferry tank is opened and closed with a brass rotary gate valve. Or they use a brass t piece and install another valve in the main tank line.
Personally i would have stabbed the top of the ferry tank with my survival knife and made a small hole.
I also would have started using it just after departure for quite a while, so I had a chance to return to the point of departure if there was a problem with it.
So as far as i am concerned the cap again has saved the life of someone lacking in basic airmanship putting an aircraft into a situation it should never have been in.
Hurray for cirrus protecting idiots from themselves.
The line into the main fuel system isn't very technical for a gravity feed if you have a fuel sector in the cockpit. Some just shut one of the tank lines with a pair of mole grips then connect with a male to male brass tube connector and when the ferry tank is finished swap to the other tank and then connect it back in and remove the mole grips. The ferry tank is opened and closed with a brass rotary gate valve. Or they use a brass t piece and install another valve in the main tank line.
Personally i would have stabbed the top of the ferry tank with my survival knife and made a small hole.
I also would have started using it just after departure for quite a while, so I had a chance to return to the point of departure if there was a problem with it.
So as far as i am concerned the cap again has saved the life of someone lacking in basic airmanship putting an aircraft into a situation it should never have been in.
Hurray for cirrus protecting idiots from themselves.
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Mad Jock,
If things really happened the way you are alleging then, you might be right.
If not, you are insulting an innocent good pilot. So far this is speculation. And thank God he is alive! I would hate to die because my engines stall for some catastrophic unrecoverable event, and be called by you "an idiot."
If things really happened the way you are alleging then, you might be right.
If not, you are insulting an innocent good pilot. So far this is speculation. And thank God he is alive! I would hate to die because my engines stall for some catastrophic unrecoverable event, and be called by you "an idiot."
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Never mind the many IMPOSTERs here.
I wonder how the inquiry into this incident would be handled, now that the aircraft is not retrievable from the ocean. As such, there is no way to really determine that a "Valve INOP" failure was the only cause of this outcome.
WP
I wonder how the inquiry into this incident would be handled, now that the aircraft is not retrievable from the ocean. As such, there is no way to really determine that a "Valve INOP" failure was the only cause of this outcome.
WP
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WP
I don't have any specific information that is not already in the public domain, but the fact that the pilot spent several hours troubleshooting the problem including talking on the sat phone to his company, Cirrus and I believe the ferry tank makers suggests that there is quite a good chance that we will find out what happened.
Also, as we know, the pilot had a camera with him and I suspect (but don't know for sure) that there will probably be a at least a photographic record of those parts of the ferry tank system that are visible.
As I said in an earlier post, the ferry company is a highly competent and reputable organisation and I am quite sure that the problem will have been documented as fully as possible.
I don't have any specific information that is not already in the public domain, but the fact that the pilot spent several hours troubleshooting the problem including talking on the sat phone to his company, Cirrus and I believe the ferry tank makers suggests that there is quite a good chance that we will find out what happened.
Also, as we know, the pilot had a camera with him and I suspect (but don't know for sure) that there will probably be a at least a photographic record of those parts of the ferry tank system that are visible.
As I said in an earlier post, the ferry company is a highly competent and reputable organisation and I am quite sure that the problem will have been documented as fully as possible.
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Give me one good reason why you would not use the ferry tank fuel before the in wing normal supply first while you were still in range of a divert on only the main tanks in case of issues with the ferry tanks?.
It would be very doubtfull I would do that in castostrophic equipment failure (and the autopilot failing doesn't come under that heading). On the other hand putting yourself in a situation with no escape options you would be called an idiot.
There nothing much they can do now the aircraft has gone. They might do some fuel calcs and work out that if he had used the ferry tank first then he would have had discovered the issue within divert range on main tanks. Then a big faa stamp in his log book saying ran out of fuel.
Or they will just take a pilot report and do nothing.
It would be very doubtfull I would do that in castostrophic equipment failure (and the autopilot failing doesn't come under that heading). On the other hand putting yourself in a situation with no escape options you would be called an idiot.
There nothing much they can do now the aircraft has gone. They might do some fuel calcs and work out that if he had used the ferry tank first then he would have had discovered the issue within divert range on main tanks. Then a big faa stamp in his log book saying ran out of fuel.
Or they will just take a pilot report and do nothing.
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Apparently, as reported, there was 25 gallons of fuel left before ditching into the ocean.
Where was this amount of fuel? In the main tanks or in the AUX tanks?
I won't fly a Cirrus with the wing tanks empty though. So, presumably, the 25 gallons were in the wing tanks, with 12.5 gallons each.
Now, does it mean that the AUX tank was empty?
The distance from KTCY to PHOG is approx. 2075nm straight line flight, and with an average speed of 180kts and 15-16 gals per hour fuel consumption, it would take about 11-12 hours of flight, and approx. 200 gallons of fuel, to reach PHOG.
Assuming that he had 232 gallons of fuel on board, at an empty weight of 2340 lbs, the take off max. weight would be approx. 3732 lbs, which is 132 lbs above the max. takeoff weight of 3600 lbs.
If I'm going to fly that distance, I would first use the fuel from the AUX tanks, which actually makes better sense to me.
I mean, the story isn't adding up though. Let's see what FAA perspectives would narrate.
WP
Where was this amount of fuel? In the main tanks or in the AUX tanks?
I won't fly a Cirrus with the wing tanks empty though. So, presumably, the 25 gallons were in the wing tanks, with 12.5 gallons each.
Now, does it mean that the AUX tank was empty?
The distance from KTCY to PHOG is approx. 2075nm straight line flight, and with an average speed of 180kts and 15-16 gals per hour fuel consumption, it would take about 11-12 hours of flight, and approx. 200 gallons of fuel, to reach PHOG.
Assuming that he had 232 gallons of fuel on board, at an empty weight of 2340 lbs, the take off max. weight would be approx. 3732 lbs, which is 132 lbs above the max. takeoff weight of 3600 lbs.
If I'm going to fly that distance, I would first use the fuel from the AUX tanks, which actually makes better sense to me.
I mean, the story isn't adding up though. Let's see what FAA perspectives would narrate.
WP
Last edited by worldpilot; 1st Feb 2015 at 11:02.
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Whats the capacity of the main tanks?
At, let's say, 180kts and 16 gallons per hour fuel consumption, the max endurance is 5.5hrs of flight.
The plane ditched into the ocean at 253nm to PHOG.
The way i read it the fuel was in the ferry tank and couldn't be used. And the mains empty.
WP
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Update from Mauinow.com
UPDATE: Pilot Safe After Ditching Plane NE of Maui | Maui Now
If this information is correct, the pilot was flying this aircraft at over 200kts per hour, which is quite a high speed for an SR22, flying the east-to-west direction with approx. headwinds of 20-30kts.
Was the aircraft being overstressed?
The max. Cruise speed is 183kts.
WP
Original Post
The Coast Guard responded to a distress call from a single-engine aircraft running out of fuel approximately 975 miles north of Hawai‘i Island today.
The pilot contacted the Hawai‘i National Guard at 12:30 p.m., reporting that his aircraft had approximately three hours of fuel remaining and he would be ditching the plane 230 miles northeast of Maui.
The Coast Guard launched crews aboard an HC-130 Hercules airplane and an MH-65 Dolphin helicopter from Air Station Barbers Point.
As of 2:35 p.m. today, the aircraft was 529 miles northeast of Hawai‘i Island.
The Hercules was expected to rendezvous with the plane around 3:20 p.m.
The aircraft is reported as a single engine Cirrus SR-22 with one person aboard.
The Coast Guard responded to a distress call from a single-engine aircraft running out of fuel approximately 975 miles north of Hawai‘i Island today.
The pilot contacted the Hawai‘i National Guard at 12:30 p.m., reporting that his aircraft had approximately three hours of fuel remaining and he would be ditching the plane 230 miles northeast of Maui.
The Coast Guard launched crews aboard an HC-130 Hercules airplane and an MH-65 Dolphin helicopter from Air Station Barbers Point.
As of 2:35 p.m. today, the aircraft was 529 miles northeast of Hawai‘i Island.
The Hercules was expected to rendezvous with the plane around 3:20 p.m.
The aircraft is reported as a single engine Cirrus SR-22 with one person aboard.
Was the aircraft being overstressed?
The max. Cruise speed is 183kts.
WP
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worldpilot, when over gross it it less than that!
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I would suspect that is statute miles they are using not Nautical miles.
So times by 0.87 and see if it makes more sense.
But after looking a bit more into it.
There is definitely a smell about this one.
So times by 0.87 and see if it makes more sense.
But after looking a bit more into it.
There is definitely a smell about this one.
Last edited by mad_jock; 1st Feb 2015 at 09:03.