What do you do if...
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't actually matter what you declare or don't in the UK .
The ATCO or other service can and will allocate an emergency response which they deem appropriate.
As soon as you mention you have a problem truth be told the whole shooting match is out of your hands be you declare pan or mayday or even don't declare at all and just mention that you have an issue.
The only way you can ensure you don't get met by trumpton on landing is by not saying a single thing if you do have a problem.
I would suggest though that if you have any feeling at all that you are uncomfortable just tell who ever your speaking to and it doesn't matter if its pan mayday or "I am unsure where I am"
Thankfully in the UK they really don't mind you having a problem. What they do mind about is if you don't say anything especially if its a navigation cockup and you start infringing controlled airspace.
The ATCO or other service can and will allocate an emergency response which they deem appropriate.
As soon as you mention you have a problem truth be told the whole shooting match is out of your hands be you declare pan or mayday or even don't declare at all and just mention that you have an issue.
The only way you can ensure you don't get met by trumpton on landing is by not saying a single thing if you do have a problem.
I would suggest though that if you have any feeling at all that you are uncomfortable just tell who ever your speaking to and it doesn't matter if its pan mayday or "I am unsure where I am"
Thankfully in the UK they really don't mind you having a problem. What they do mind about is if you don't say anything especially if its a navigation cockup and you start infringing controlled airspace.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have a problem when airborne, it is good to have somebody out there on your side who will help any way possible. Whether you say Pan Pan or Mayday, it means you have a problem; the size of the problem can very much depend on your experience/panic/circumstances, and the controller really wants to help with a happy outcome.
I'll never forget the helpful enroute Jacksonville controller, when I noticed, while flying over water abeam Tallahassee, that one of the Cessna 172 fuel
dials read full, the other read empty....which caused me to wander off track a bit while contemplating the problem. The controller asked if I had a problem, I said I might have a problem with fuel....
With a tone of complete helpful concern, downright enthusiasm, he came back to ask "Would you like to declare an emergency?" (that's Yank speak for a Mayday). Clearly he hoped I would, but had to disappoint him because I didn't feel in danger...yet. He did help me fly to the nearest handy airfield to refuel, and I did stop in the tower to say thank you.
Actually, people, it is always nice to visit the tower, and they don't mind, if you know when to chat and when to shut up.....
I'll never forget the helpful enroute Jacksonville controller, when I noticed, while flying over water abeam Tallahassee, that one of the Cessna 172 fuel
dials read full, the other read empty....which caused me to wander off track a bit while contemplating the problem. The controller asked if I had a problem, I said I might have a problem with fuel....
With a tone of complete helpful concern, downright enthusiasm, he came back to ask "Would you like to declare an emergency?" (that's Yank speak for a Mayday). Clearly he hoped I would, but had to disappoint him because I didn't feel in danger...yet. He did help me fly to the nearest handy airfield to refuel, and I did stop in the tower to say thank you.
Actually, people, it is always nice to visit the tower, and they don't mind, if you know when to chat and when to shut up.....
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would always endorse a pilot contacting ATC or area controllers to advise of an actual or developing problem, especially if it prevents violation of controlled airspace or a similar consequence. I'd be pretty sure that instructors around the world drum that message into students. The nature of the advice clearly relies on the judgement of the individual pilot and I take the point about pilot incapacitation due to e.g. panic as being a factor in itself.
In having a quick look for any national differences, I came across a UK controllers' emergency response guide (possibly slightly dated) at:
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/200.pdf
Having not thought much about the situation from the ATC end, I found it interesting reading.
Like Mary, I have found ATC helpful everywhere I've flown in the world. Many years ago, as a newly minted pre-GPS PPL, I found difficulty in positively fixing my position in the narrow Sydney VFR lanes, owing to low sun and severe haze. I definitely needed urgent help to avoid ILS approach paths etc, but in my judgement the situation did not fit mayday or pan needs. A plain language request for navigational assistance did the trick, with the only consequence being a phone call from CASA (or whatever they were then called) a few days later. In retrospect, the enquirer was more interested in my training and the (correct) decision to ask for help than in any particular actions on the day.
Perhaps a slight difference between Australia and the UK is the density of available response services. With the huge areas here, it's hard not to be aware of the potential opportunity costs involved in calling out the cavalry to a particular incident. Those fire engines and ambulances mobilized at a rural airport may be the only ones for hundreds of kilometres. If the situation demanded a mayday call, I wouldn't hesitate. But if there was the luxury of thinking time, I'd give it some serious thought.
In having a quick look for any national differences, I came across a UK controllers' emergency response guide (possibly slightly dated) at:
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/200.pdf
Having not thought much about the situation from the ATC end, I found it interesting reading.
Like Mary, I have found ATC helpful everywhere I've flown in the world. Many years ago, as a newly minted pre-GPS PPL, I found difficulty in positively fixing my position in the narrow Sydney VFR lanes, owing to low sun and severe haze. I definitely needed urgent help to avoid ILS approach paths etc, but in my judgement the situation did not fit mayday or pan needs. A plain language request for navigational assistance did the trick, with the only consequence being a phone call from CASA (or whatever they were then called) a few days later. In retrospect, the enquirer was more interested in my training and the (correct) decision to ask for help than in any particular actions on the day.
Perhaps a slight difference between Australia and the UK is the density of available response services. With the huge areas here, it's hard not to be aware of the potential opportunity costs involved in calling out the cavalry to a particular incident. Those fire engines and ambulances mobilized at a rural airport may be the only ones for hundreds of kilometres. If the situation demanded a mayday call, I wouldn't hesitate. But if there was the luxury of thinking time, I'd give it some serious thought.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: glendale
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kudos to you for even knowing about flying triangles
but I don't think that is part of the routine now a days, last time I saw it was in a 1960 US AIM. And that was for IFR not VFR.
Fly the pattern and step on somebody else to request landing clearance...flash your landing light too ifyou really have lost com and look for a green light from the tower
you guys do things like that in europe don't you?
but I don't think that is part of the routine now a days, last time I saw it was in a 1960 US AIM. And that was for IFR not VFR.
Fly the pattern and step on somebody else to request landing clearance...flash your landing light too ifyou really have lost com and look for a green light from the tower
you guys do things like that in europe don't you?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: london, UK
Age: 57
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No problem, ma'am, just carry on heading 080...
Sound like he was sending you on a direct track for England!
I found the lights at one airfield very hard to see. Why don't they use them laser pointers that everyone gets so excited about?
I had the opposite problem to the original poster when I was learning to fly. I had been gliding for some years and was very happy talking rubbish on the radio about lift and sink and tottie at the launch point but I shat myself every time I talked to any kind of controller. I doubt I would have noticed a radio failure for the first few years of my flying!
Sound like he was sending you on a direct track for England!
I found the lights at one airfield very hard to see. Why don't they use them laser pointers that everyone gets so excited about?
I had the opposite problem to the original poster when I was learning to fly. I had been gliding for some years and was very happy talking rubbish on the radio about lift and sink and tottie at the launch point but I shat myself every time I talked to any kind of controller. I doubt I would have noticed a radio failure for the first few years of my flying!
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK - North Weald (EGSX) & Southend (EGMC)
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had a radio failure whilst training with an insturcor to regain my licence at Southend...
Had been talking to approach and was given a Right Base approach onto 24 with a "call on RB" instruction. Made the call and heard nothing back... no other chatter on the radio.
My instructor told me to coniue flying the approach while he dealt with the radio issue. He continued to blind call and sqwarked 7600.
As I turned onto finals there was a "solid green" from the tower... so yes at least one modern VCR still has the lamps to hand! They had the fire truck on standby by the runway as a matter of course.
Once we landed and parked up we called the tower and they confirmed that they could hear us all the way and it was our receive that had packed up.
I have to say getting that solid green was a reassuring sight
Had been talking to approach and was given a Right Base approach onto 24 with a "call on RB" instruction. Made the call and heard nothing back... no other chatter on the radio.
My instructor told me to coniue flying the approach while he dealt with the radio issue. He continued to blind call and sqwarked 7600.
As I turned onto finals there was a "solid green" from the tower... so yes at least one modern VCR still has the lamps to hand! They had the fire truck on standby by the runway as a matter of course.
Once we landed and parked up we called the tower and they confirmed that they could hear us all the way and it was our receive that had packed up.
I have to say getting that solid green was a reassuring sight
And if you cant get a word in edgeways and its at a critical point in the flight/approach just be rude and butt in as long as your not butting into an important call.
Just what I had to do when I ended up on short final recently with constant chatter and not able to make my final call and receive a landing clearance...I would have appreciated it if the controller had realised I would be wanting to make my final call...he did acknowledge but I was just about to have to go around.
Just what I had to do when I ended up on short final recently with constant chatter and not able to make my final call and receive a landing clearance...I would have appreciated it if the controller had realised I would be wanting to make my final call...he did acknowledge but I was just about to have to go around.
