UAS to NPPL to EASA PPL?
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UAS to NPPL to EASA PPL?
I have been in the UAS and gained the majority of my flying hours from there. I have just finished off converting this experience to an NPPL. I would like to upgrade this to a full EASA PPL; from what I understand I need to convert to an LAPL then complete a training course of 10 hours dual and 5 solo. I have a few questions about this, I have spoken to my current flying school, but no one seems very sure what to do, I have searched for similar topics and tried to contact the CAA but have had limited success so far:
I have completed all the required exercises on the full PPL and have instrument and radio nav time, so for the 10 hours additional dual training (after converting to the LAPL) I was thinking of doing a night rating and an aeros course, and then some solo time at the end. Would this be considered acceptable for an upgrade to EASA PPL, or does it need to be PPL Syllabus based?
I was under the impression that if I did the full PPL length QXC for the NPPL that I could reuse this for the conversion, however I have recently been told that I would have to do it again, is this correct or can I reuse my previous QXC?
After submitting the paperwork for the LAPL conversion I assume that I would have to wait until the converted licence is received back before I can start my additional 15 hours of training?
And just to confirm I would then need to do a PPL GST at the end of it all?
Thanks
I have completed all the required exercises on the full PPL and have instrument and radio nav time, so for the 10 hours additional dual training (after converting to the LAPL) I was thinking of doing a night rating and an aeros course, and then some solo time at the end. Would this be considered acceptable for an upgrade to EASA PPL, or does it need to be PPL Syllabus based?
I was under the impression that if I did the full PPL length QXC for the NPPL that I could reuse this for the conversion, however I have recently been told that I would have to do it again, is this correct or can I reuse my previous QXC?
After submitting the paperwork for the LAPL conversion I assume that I would have to wait until the converted licence is received back before I can start my additional 15 hours of training?
And just to confirm I would then need to do a PPL GST at the end of it all?
Thanks
Unfortunately Part FCL requires that the training to convert LAPL(A) -> PPL(A) be done after being issued an LAPL. FCL.210.A (b):
You can go directly from NPPL to PPL without holding an LAPL but only if you meet the requirements quoted above & FCL.235 (the PPL(A) skill test.)
Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL(A) holding an LAPL(A) shall have
completed at least 15 hours of flight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL(A), of which at least 10 shall be
flight instruction completed in a training course at an ATO. This training course shall include at least 4 hours of
supervised solo flight time, including at least 2 hours of solo cross-country flight time with at least 1 cross-country
flight of at least 270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different from the aerodrome of
departure shall be made.
completed at least 15 hours of flight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL(A), of which at least 10 shall be
flight instruction completed in a training course at an ATO. This training course shall include at least 4 hours of
supervised solo flight time, including at least 2 hours of solo cross-country flight time with at least 1 cross-country
flight of at least 270 km (150 NM), during which full stop landings at 2 aerodromes different from the aerodrome of
departure shall be made.
It has been recognised that the LAPL-to-PPL course has been poorly defined by the €urocrats....
The topic was raised at the last EASA FCL Implementation Forum and delegates agreed that clarification was required.
Hence it is likely that the forthcoming FCL.002 NPA will state that the course 'shall include training for any part of the PPL syllabus which was not previously included in the applicant's LAPL course' or words to that effect.
There should then be no ambiguity regarding the 150nm X-C - because such solo flying under supervision is considered to be 'training' by EASA.....
Regrettably, 22(Trg) Gp hasn't been minded to write a conversion report for UAS-to-LAPL credit, so at present the path remains UAS-to-NPPL-to-LAPL-to-PPL, but you do NOT need physically to hold a LAPL, instead you need to meet both NPPL-to-LAPL and LAPL-to-PPL requirements, then apply for the PPL.
The topic was raised at the last EASA FCL Implementation Forum and delegates agreed that clarification was required.Hence it is likely that the forthcoming FCL.002 NPA will state that the course 'shall include training for any part of the PPL syllabus which was not previously included in the applicant's LAPL course' or words to that effect.
There should then be no ambiguity regarding the 150nm X-C - because such solo flying under supervision is considered to be 'training' by EASA.....
Regrettably, 22(Trg) Gp hasn't been minded to write a conversion report for UAS-to-LAPL credit, so at present the path remains UAS-to-NPPL-to-LAPL-to-PPL, but you do NOT need physically to hold a LAPL, instead you need to meet both NPPL-to-LAPL and LAPL-to-PPL requirements, then apply for the PPL.
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BEagle,
If one of the LAPL requirments is that you need to do flying AFTER you have got a LAPL, then how can you go NPPL-LAPL-EASA SEP without getting a licence?
And if you can really go NPPL-LAPL-EASA SEP without the actual LAPL - since your school/instructor/examiner who didn't do the exam said it was all OK and the paperwork would have gone through fine etc - then why do ordinary mortals have to wait until the issue of their licence for it to be valid?
And what happens in the NPPL-LAPL-EASA SEP with no LAPL issued route if someone - heaven forbid, it never happens! - gets their paperwork wrong? Seems a high-risk option based on the number of initial licence applications that get rejected because of wrong stuff?
If one of the LAPL requirments is that you need to do flying AFTER you have got a LAPL, then how can you go NPPL-LAPL-EASA SEP without getting a licence?
And if you can really go NPPL-LAPL-EASA SEP without the actual LAPL - since your school/instructor/examiner who didn't do the exam said it was all OK and the paperwork would have gone through fine etc - then why do ordinary mortals have to wait until the issue of their licence for it to be valid?
And what happens in the NPPL-LAPL-EASA SEP with no LAPL issued route if someone - heaven forbid, it never happens! - gets their paperwork wrong? Seems a high-risk option based on the number of initial licence applications that get rejected because of wrong stuff?
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See CAP 804, Section 4, Part P, page 12 for NPPL > LAPL > PPL without the need to obtain a LAPL.
ifitaint
The holder of NPPL(A)(SSEA) seeking to convert directly to a PPL(A)(SEP)may do so by: ...
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Thanks for all the information and comments here, its really helpful! Sorry to bring this up again, but I just want to clarify some things.
As the deadline to convert NPPL to EASA LAPL has been moved back from April 2015 to April 2018 it seems like it would be better (cheaper and less faff) to go direct from NPPL to PPL.
I meet the conversion requirements stated in CAP 804 for NPPL to LAPL, therefore would I be correct in saying that all I need to do is:
- A total of 15 hours flight time of which 10 hours are a "training course", of which 4 must be solo including a QXC (I was thinking of doing a 5 hour aeros course, and then maybe an additional hour of instruments or something, followed by QXC and some more solo nav)
- 5 hours solo (would I be correct in saying that the requirement for the remaining 5 hours of solo time are unsupervised, and could be completed on my NPPL as if I were not upgrading?)
- PPL skills test
- Paperwork
As was mentioned earlier, in the event of a paperwork disaster would it cause a problem going straight to PPL without physically holding the LAPL? Or would it just be a case of amending the paperwork?
Thanks!
As the deadline to convert NPPL to EASA LAPL has been moved back from April 2015 to April 2018 it seems like it would be better (cheaper and less faff) to go direct from NPPL to PPL.
I meet the conversion requirements stated in CAP 804 for NPPL to LAPL, therefore would I be correct in saying that all I need to do is:
- A total of 15 hours flight time of which 10 hours are a "training course", of which 4 must be solo including a QXC (I was thinking of doing a 5 hour aeros course, and then maybe an additional hour of instruments or something, followed by QXC and some more solo nav)
- 5 hours solo (would I be correct in saying that the requirement for the remaining 5 hours of solo time are unsupervised, and could be completed on my NPPL as if I were not upgrading?)
- PPL skills test
- Paperwork
As was mentioned earlier, in the event of a paperwork disaster would it cause a problem going straight to PPL without physically holding the LAPL? Or would it just be a case of amending the paperwork?
Thanks!
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Hi,
I was just wondering what the outcome of this was or if anyone can help me out.
I (stupidly) did the full PPL course and have 48 hrs total including skills test (incorporating my first 13 hours from UAS as no one at the club realised they cant be accepted).
After discovering the UAS hours dont count, I applied for the NPPL and was issued it, so I believe those UAS hours now count towards the EASA licence under the terms of the NPPL conversion report, does anyone know where this is written specifically as the CAA are now disputing it.
With regards to the 15 hours post NPPL issue, HOW ABSURD! Ii have completed the full PPL syllabus (including test and everything) this piece of regulation is joke. The wording is terrible with inferences made by the licencing officers, it doesn't explicitly say anywhere that LAPL is to be compared directly to NPPL, just that you must meet the LAPL-PPL upgrade requirements (since we aren't even being issued a LAPL this nullifies itself.
Does anyone have any advice or experience with this? No one at the CAA can give me a straight answer its pretty unbelievable.
Thanks in advance.
I was just wondering what the outcome of this was or if anyone can help me out.
I (stupidly) did the full PPL course and have 48 hrs total including skills test (incorporating my first 13 hours from UAS as no one at the club realised they cant be accepted).
After discovering the UAS hours dont count, I applied for the NPPL and was issued it, so I believe those UAS hours now count towards the EASA licence under the terms of the NPPL conversion report, does anyone know where this is written specifically as the CAA are now disputing it.
With regards to the 15 hours post NPPL issue, HOW ABSURD! Ii have completed the full PPL syllabus (including test and everything) this piece of regulation is joke. The wording is terrible with inferences made by the licencing officers, it doesn't explicitly say anywhere that LAPL is to be compared directly to NPPL, just that you must meet the LAPL-PPL upgrade requirements (since we aren't even being issued a LAPL this nullifies itself.
Does anyone have any advice or experience with this? No one at the CAA can give me a straight answer its pretty unbelievable.
Thanks in advance.
This was all laid out in CAP 804, which is now redundant but may still be available on the CAA website.
Your NPPL(A) with it's SSEA rating entitles you to be issued with an LAPL(A), it does not entitle you to a PPL(A). You can only apply directly for a PPL(A) if you complete the LAPL(A) to PPL(A) conversion as an NPPL(A) holder, see Section 4, Part P, page 13 of CAP 804.
Alternatively, you can go back to the ATO, complete the remaining hours (the skill test does not count as part of the 45 hours minimum) and do another PPL skill test.
Your NPPL(A) with it's SSEA rating entitles you to be issued with an LAPL(A), it does not entitle you to a PPL(A). You can only apply directly for a PPL(A) if you complete the LAPL(A) to PPL(A) conversion as an NPPL(A) holder, see Section 4, Part P, page 13 of CAP 804.
Alternatively, you can go back to the ATO, complete the remaining hours (the skill test does not count as part of the 45 hours minimum) and do another PPL skill test.
To add to prop swinger's post:
CAP804 is available from the CAA website here (8.8Mb PDF). It is now watermarked "Reference Only" but is still valuable.
CAP804 is available from the CAA website here (8.8Mb PDF). It is now watermarked "Reference Only" but is still valuable.
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Thanks all for getting back to me. I've been looking through CAP804 closely.
I did the UAS hours, then the rest of the PPL course (using the inital UAS hours unintentionally). I then applied for the NPPL to get them accredited, so I could apply directly for NPPL - PPL(a) upgrade.
I'm aware NPPL accredits UAS hours. With regards to using these accredited UAS hours to EASA PPL(a) under the NPPL conversion report terms, I'm still a little lost paperwork-wise?
Secondly, the 15 hours post NPPL thing, refers to this section:
(b) Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL (A) holding an LAPL(A) shall have completed at least 15 hours of flight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL (A),
I will not hold a LAPL, however the CAA infers that an NPPL = LAPL equivalence in this part:
The holder of NPPL(A)(SSEA) seeking to convert directly to a PPL(A)(SEP)may do so by: ....... 2) Satisfying the LAPL(A)(SEP) to PPL(A)(SEP) training and testing requirements set out in FCL.210.A(b) & FCL.235, and ....
These training and testing requirements are essentially the PPL course + test (which I have done now that those first UAS hours are included). They just want 15 hours flown post NPPL (though, again this is all inference) - I'd like to know where it is offically said that an LAPL = NPPL (in regards this 15 hours business).
No surprises, no one at the CAA can answer this.
I did the UAS hours, then the rest of the PPL course (using the inital UAS hours unintentionally). I then applied for the NPPL to get them accredited, so I could apply directly for NPPL - PPL(a) upgrade.
I'm aware NPPL accredits UAS hours. With regards to using these accredited UAS hours to EASA PPL(a) under the NPPL conversion report terms, I'm still a little lost paperwork-wise?
Secondly, the 15 hours post NPPL thing, refers to this section:
(b) Specific requirements for applicants holding an LAPL(A). Applicants for a PPL (A) holding an LAPL(A) shall have completed at least 15 hours of flight time on aeroplanes after the issue of the LAPL (A),
I will not hold a LAPL, however the CAA infers that an NPPL = LAPL equivalence in this part:
The holder of NPPL(A)(SSEA) seeking to convert directly to a PPL(A)(SEP)may do so by: ....... 2) Satisfying the LAPL(A)(SEP) to PPL(A)(SEP) training and testing requirements set out in FCL.210.A(b) & FCL.235, and ....
These training and testing requirements are essentially the PPL course + test (which I have done now that those first UAS hours are included). They just want 15 hours flown post NPPL (though, again this is all inference) - I'd like to know where it is offically said that an LAPL = NPPL (in regards this 15 hours business).
No surprises, no one at the CAA can answer this.
An LAPL is the EASA version of an NPPL. If you have an NPPL, you can apply for an LAPL, if you had a pre-EASA PPL you can apply for an EASA PPL. To save time and paperwork, people who already hold an NPPL and have completed the EASA LAPL to PPL conversion requirements may apply for an EASA PPL, skipping the LAPL.
What you can't do is say "well, it took me 45 hours to get the NPPL so I should be given an EASA PPL". I suspect that the people at the CAA have told you this but you don't want to listen.
What you can't do is say "well, it took me 45 hours to get the NPPL so I should be given an EASA PPL". I suspect that the people at the CAA have told you this but you don't want to listen.
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I think you may have slightly missed what I'm getting at prop swinger - I never wanted an NPPL, I only got it (after the EASA PPL course) in order to accredit previous UAS hours towards that EASA PPL. I'm after A) official documents saying that LAPL is the equivalent of an NPPL, if there isn't any then this 15 hours thing is bollocks. B) Official wording of NPPL conversion reports meaning that those UAS hours now count towards EASA.
2 month turn around times on CAA replies isn't quite getting me where i need... I'll post on here if I find out any more about this.
Why cant you just join me in my misery over arbitrary rules.
2 month turn around times on CAA replies isn't quite getting me where i need... I'll post on here if I find out any more about this.
Why cant you just join me in my misery over arbitrary rules.
locomotion, are you an AOPA member? If so, send me a PM with your e-mail address.
I agreed the whole NPPL>PPL via 'virtual LAPL' process with the CAA some years ago and should be able to intervene - that's something AOPA does for its members when required.
I agreed the whole NPPL>PPL via 'virtual LAPL' process with the CAA some years ago and should be able to intervene - that's something AOPA does for its members when required.
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Retarded!
Hi
I went through the NPPL to LAPL to EASA PPL route.. over 700 hours solo x-country and 100 training over 10 years.. I STILL had to do a qualifying cross country and skills test.. the instructor was so bored that we called it a day on the test after 20 mins and did some aerobatics practice instead. The x-country was simply a waste of time and fuel.
It then took weeks to get the actual licence in my hand.
I really hope Brexit gives power back to the CAA and they start employing those truly interested in flying..
The whole experience made me dispise the powers that be and the utterly stupid rules made up by even stupider committees and sub-committees that make them up for safety concisous and mindful pilots..
P :-(
I went through the NPPL to LAPL to EASA PPL route.. over 700 hours solo x-country and 100 training over 10 years.. I STILL had to do a qualifying cross country and skills test.. the instructor was so bored that we called it a day on the test after 20 mins and did some aerobatics practice instead. The x-country was simply a waste of time and fuel.
It then took weeks to get the actual licence in my hand.
I really hope Brexit gives power back to the CAA and they start employing those truly interested in flying..
The whole experience made me dispise the powers that be and the utterly stupid rules made up by even stupider committees and sub-committees that make them up for safety concisous and mindful pilots..
P :-(
