GLIDING: 'We fly nearly every day of the year'
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How does a tire wear out while in flight?
At the club where I fly there's a fixed cost per flight. This obviously also covers wear and tear while on the ground (insofar a grass take-off or landing wears out a tire in the first place - most tires need to be replaced due to old age, not due to wear). But you don't get charged for airtime as airtime doesn't cost the club a whole lot.
The only thing directly related to airtime is the 50-hour check. And that one is done by volunteers, for free.
At the club where I fly there's a fixed cost per flight. This obviously also covers wear and tear while on the ground (insofar a grass take-off or landing wears out a tire in the first place - most tires need to be replaced due to old age, not due to wear). But you don't get charged for airtime as airtime doesn't cost the club a whole lot.
The only thing directly related to airtime is the 50-hour check. And that one is done by volunteers, for free.
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The club I am looking at charges a fixed fee for a winch or aerotow, then about 70p per minute of flight, with the first 30 mins free during winter months.
Aerotow is £35 per launch, so if I had, say, 3 aerotow launches in one day then that's already over £100 and that's before the per minute charge!
Or is it more common to have a mixture of winch/aerotow?
Aerotow is £35 per launch, so if I had, say, 3 aerotow launches in one day then that's already over £100 and that's before the per minute charge!
Or is it more common to have a mixture of winch/aerotow?
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Bless your sweet innocence Backpacker. If only gliders only cost the price of tyre wear to operate!
Depreciation? You've got to buy the glider, or make provision for an eventual replacement
Insurance? Especially on a club training two seater - several thousand pounds a year.
Paperwork for the annual inspection even if volunteers do the work.
Wearing parts - release hooks etc
Minor repair materials
Periodic fabric replacement if it has fabric
Then there are all the costs of running a gliding club - airfield rental, maintenance (grass cutting), hangar & building rental or upkeep. Electricity, water, taxes.
Launch equipment and ground vehicle repair and operation
They all have to be paid for.
Normally by a combination of annual subscriptions, flying fees (glider rental) and launch fees (plus bar profits!). Private glider & trailer parking charges.
It's just up to the club how they divide up those charges. If they don't charge a rate per minute on the club gliders, then the other costs have to be higher.
The money has to come from somewhere!!
Depreciation? You've got to buy the glider, or make provision for an eventual replacement
Insurance? Especially on a club training two seater - several thousand pounds a year.
Paperwork for the annual inspection even if volunteers do the work.
Wearing parts - release hooks etc
Minor repair materials
Periodic fabric replacement if it has fabric
Then there are all the costs of running a gliding club - airfield rental, maintenance (grass cutting), hangar & building rental or upkeep. Electricity, water, taxes.
Launch equipment and ground vehicle repair and operation
They all have to be paid for.
Normally by a combination of annual subscriptions, flying fees (glider rental) and launch fees (plus bar profits!). Private glider & trailer parking charges.
It's just up to the club how they divide up those charges. If they don't charge a rate per minute on the club gliders, then the other costs have to be higher.
The money has to come from somewhere!!
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If you have a look at "shareoplanes"on offer, you will find that the standing charge is as much as that hypothetical day's gliding, add hourly flying-rate +fuel or wet-rate (includes fuel) and i'd guessthe shareoplane would cost~ 4 x the cost of gliding.
As the sages have pointed out, you are highly unlikely to get a winter flight where the surcharge kicks in, so, you can safely say the maximum cost per flying-hour = 2 launch-costs if towed , alternatively, about 4 winch-launch charges.
You may spend 8 hours at the field, but the figures say you will manage less than 2 hours flying in that time.
Why not budget a month's flying-spend....maybe you'll blow it all in one day, then have to "sit-out" the rest of the month......but, more usually, if your figures are sensible, you'll get days where you spend well over the amount "allocated" and others where weather frustrates you and all the cash in the world cannot buy a change in the weather-pattern (but you could go to where it is more favourable, if money was no object.)
As the sages have pointed out, you are highly unlikely to get a winter flight where the surcharge kicks in, so, you can safely say the maximum cost per flying-hour = 2 launch-costs if towed , alternatively, about 4 winch-launch charges.
You may spend 8 hours at the field, but the figures say you will manage less than 2 hours flying in that time.
Why not budget a month's flying-spend....maybe you'll blow it all in one day, then have to "sit-out" the rest of the month......but, more usually, if your figures are sensible, you'll get days where you spend well over the amount "allocated" and others where weather frustrates you and all the cash in the world cannot buy a change in the weather-pattern (but you could go to where it is more favourable, if money was no object.)
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"
I would say it is more common to mix winch and aerotow, with the emphasis on winch. The club I flew from was winch only and you paid for glider hire from take off to touch down.
The standard was that you arrived at the club and put your name on the flying list, then you helped out with launching and retrieving gliders, keeping the log and retrieving cables until it was your turn to fly. Then you would have two winch launches back to back (unless you had a longer soaring flight, in which case it was just one). Once you had completed your flights you could put your name down again and repeat the process, but it usually got dark before my name got back to the top so usually just 2 flights per day.
If aerotowing then it was as above but you would only have 1 flight at a time, however some clubs may be different.
If winch launch is £8 and glider hire £0.70 then bank on 2 flights per day at about £15 per flight maybe the odd day with double that.
My journey to solo was 48 launches and 9hours and 4 minutes air time. So the average flight time was 11 minutes. All but 3 of these flights were winch launch, so the average price was just over £15 per flight in todays money
Aerotow is £35 per launch, so if I had, say, 3 aerotow launches in one day then that's already over £100 and that's before the per minute charge!
Or is it more common to have a mixture of winch/aerotow?
Or is it more common to have a mixture of winch/aerotow?
The standard was that you arrived at the club and put your name on the flying list, then you helped out with launching and retrieving gliders, keeping the log and retrieving cables until it was your turn to fly. Then you would have two winch launches back to back (unless you had a longer soaring flight, in which case it was just one). Once you had completed your flights you could put your name down again and repeat the process, but it usually got dark before my name got back to the top so usually just 2 flights per day.
If aerotowing then it was as above but you would only have 1 flight at a time, however some clubs may be different.
If winch launch is £8 and glider hire £0.70 then bank on 2 flights per day at about £15 per flight maybe the odd day with double that.
My journey to solo was 48 launches and 9hours and 4 minutes air time. So the average flight time was 11 minutes. All but 3 of these flights were winch launch, so the average price was just over £15 per flight in todays money
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Bless your sweet innocence Backpacker. If only gliders only cost the price of tyre wear to operate!
How the club divides up all the annual costs that are being made, across the number of flights and number of hours flown is mostly a political matter. Some clubs charge a flat membership fee which covers all annual costs, some may charge a weekly or daily fee to casual visitors, some may charge by the flight or by the minute, or any combination thereof.
BP - if your club has any SZD gliders (Puchaz / Juniors etc) then there are 50, 100 & 150 hour inspections to budget for (100 hours per annum are easily reached on a club Puchaz) let alone the 2000 hour (IIRC) inspections.
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That's what I said. The only real cost associated with airtime are the cost of 50-hour inspections and such. At my club, these are done by volunteers, so there's no direct monetary cost.
The only other thing I could possibly think of, that is directly related to airtime is any "lifed" items, that need to be replaced/overhauled/whatever after x hours of airtime. This is quite common in the powered world, but I have no idea if there are any gliders that have the same issues.
The only other thing I could possibly think of, that is directly related to airtime is any "lifed" items, that need to be replaced/overhauled/whatever after x hours of airtime. This is quite common in the powered world, but I have no idea if there are any gliders that have the same issues.
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Thanks to EASA hooks are now lifed. I think, at 2000 operations. I understand the hook is deemed to be operated if the release is pulled - so that includes checking operation before flight. Similarly, the aerotow hook is operated on each launch even if it's a winch launch so it's using up its 'life'! Crazy!
Clubs have to get their income from somewhere, and making a time based charge for using the asset seems reasonable to me. If there was no charge and someone could take a launch and sit in the glider all day, the club wouldn't make much contribution towards its costs. There would also be a lot of unhappy people on the ground waiting for flights in what is, inevitably, a limited resource. Having said which, some clubs I've flown at limit soaring charges to, say, 2 hours, for approved cross country and 5 hour duration attempts.
Clubs have to get their income from somewhere, and making a time based charge for using the asset seems reasonable to me. If there was no charge and someone could take a launch and sit in the glider all day, the club wouldn't make much contribution towards its costs. There would also be a lot of unhappy people on the ground waiting for flights in what is, inevitably, a limited resource. Having said which, some clubs I've flown at limit soaring charges to, say, 2 hours, for approved cross country and 5 hour duration attempts.
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Mr Tost himself. Who has a virtual monopoly on release hooks these days.
Whereas "Ottfur" hooks fitted to older British gliders are not lifed but are simply inspected "on condition"
Whereas "Ottfur" hooks fitted to older British gliders are not lifed but are simply inspected "on condition"
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No composite work is needed.
There are 2 or 3 bolts to fix the hook and 1 to attach the cable.
So simple but a lot of time and temper can be lost because the access to the hooks can be bad.
There are 2 or 3 bolts to fix the hook and 1 to attach the cable.
So simple but a lot of time and temper can be lost because the access to the hooks can be bad.
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Yeah, I suspected as much. It's one of those jobs where you need to bring your six-year old nephew to the club, and promise him a nice day out, or a ton of icecream, provided he helps you out with this little job.
Tost Hook Recondition
I've heard stories of hooks being sent for recondition and returned with no apparent evidence of anything done to the hook.
But it does come back with an EASA form and an invoice
A CG hook comes in handy as you can use the back release for ground retrieve; so, theoretically only two operations per aerotow flight -- release check and release in the air.
Well, that's provided the hooker up knows how to do the back release; so. four per flight.
But it does come back with an EASA form and an invoice
A CG hook comes in handy as you can use the back release for ground retrieve; so, theoretically only two operations per aerotow flight -- release check and release in the air.
Well, that's provided the hooker up knows how to do the back release; so. four per flight.
