Use of iPhone whilst in light aircraft.

[BlueJays]

Good afternoon

I was just wondering how important it is to have a mobile on 'airplane mode' when flying. I sometimes take photos and I've always wondered the importance of using that mode when flying recreationally. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me.

Thanks in advance,

M

[9 lives]

If you are PIC, and you continue to fly the plane with due attention, use of an Iphone will not interfere with the safety of your flight. If you think that is it interfering with an aircraft system, turn it off. For my extensive experience with this, any interference from a cell phone in flight is the most minor in nature. It's good to check, you have go ahead...

[Rod1]

10 years ago I was involved in a less paper in the cockpit system for airlines and there were telecom rules that banned you from using mobiles from aircraft because you can log into too many towers. Not sure if this is still in force.

Rod1

[Flyingmac]

Saturday, September 27th 2014 - 08:58 UTC
European airlines cleared to allow passengers use mobile phones and PEDSs

Airlines across Europe have been cleared to allow passengers' use of mobile phones and portable electronic devices (PEDs) throughout flights. The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) said there would be no restrictions in place from a safety perspective - a long-held reason for devices to be turned off or placed in “airplane mode.

[piperarcher]

In my experience an iPhone has never caused any interefence of any kind whatsoever not in flight mode. A blackberry on the other hand will constantly be a disruption to at least the COM channel.

[ShyTorque]

I was just wondering how important it is to have a mobile on 'airplane mode' when flying.

Just make sure you put yourself on 'airplane mode' when flying.

[worrab]

My experience is that if you leave your phone on the comms will quickly remind you to turn it off. Not sure whether it's the radio or the intercom but something picks up the RF and buzzingly reminds me to switch it off.

[John R81]

At low height and low speed (120 knt) never had a problem

Faster causes tower problems (I am told, Vne for me is 150 Knt so I wouldn't know). Higher and you loose signal from the tower and you burn battery whilst it hunts. Even then for me no coms interference.

No, I don't make calls or text in flight. Too noisy and no free hands in an unstabilised helicopter.

[thing]

I use SkyDemon on my iPhone while flying with it plugged into the fag lighter. It must (I'm assuming) be OK otherwise the guys at SkyDemon wouldn't have released it for iPhone. I would imagine they looked into all of that. Anyway it doesn't interfere with anything.

[Pirke]

In the C172 my phone used to interfere with the com. Now I'm used to putting it to airplane mode.

[stevelup]

The problem with iPhones (and iPads) is that if you put them into flight mode, this also disables the internal GPS.

It's likely that if you've gone to the trouble of mounting your iPhone in a cradle and supplied power to it that you're going to want the GPS working!

So you have three choices.

1) Don't put it in flight mode
2) Take the SIM out (although you'll still get occasional chirps)
3) Put it in flight mode and use an external GPS

I get no interference at all from my phone - in my aircraft, it seems the key is to simply keep it away from the headset cables.

[thing]

The problem with iPhones (and iPads) is that if you put them into flight mode, this also disables the internal GPS

I always thought that it was a bit of a design fault. There are lots of situations where you might want to be 'dead to the world' as it were but still need the GPS. Anyhow, I leave the whole shooting match on with my phone and it doesn't seem to bother anything. You get live updates, weather and what have you while you are flying as well if you leave it on fulll fat mode.

It's quite an amazing bit of kit really cf what pilots had twenty years ago, and it just goes in your trouser pocket when you aren't flying.

Disclaimer: for the old and bold here I still fly with a marked up map and plog.

[stevelup]

Yes, it's very silly...

The reason it happens is because the GPS receiver is in the cellular baseband chip, and when you put an iOS device into airplane mode, Apple power down that whole chip.

[Heebicka]

never had any issues with iphone in plane at all, even using data transfers when 1000AGL and bellow (update weather etc..)

[Pirke]

My android devices keep the GPS working in airplane mode.

[darkroomsource]

I have seen a mobile phone (cell phone, I was in the US at the time) when placed within about 300mm (a foot) of the panel cause the VOR needle to deviate by a good 3 dots. Never had the nerve to try it flying an ILS approach.

[Heady1977]

there were telecom rules that banned you from using mobiles from aircraft because you can log into too many towers

Faster causes tower problems

I've been looking into this on & off for years and asking anyone I have come across with appropriate knowledge or skills in the mobile network area...

Seems to be a common refrain as I hear this around the bar at the flying club from time to time and on here more than once in the last many years.

I've never been able to get a definitive answer and would appreciate it if someone is able to point to something tangible.

The best I've been able to find was an article that referenced another (American) article on the subject saying that either the FAA/FCC had come to such a conclusion. However, how the conclusion was reached was not disclosed and the actual mobile network "tested" was not defined. Its been quite a few years and I no longer seem to have the bookmark but I believe that the article was written in the late '90s. At that time America was pre-GSM so the mobile networks were based on AMPS & D-AMPS. So I have always assumed that any "test" that may have led to the conclusion that "using a mobile while flying causes problems with the mobile network because the mobile camps on many cells because it can see many cells at the same time and therefore clogs up the network" was based on these older mobile network systems.

GSM systems were designed for the fast inter-city trains found in Europe at the time the GSM system was defined. Most small GA aircraft fly at or slower than these fast trains. The GSM system is designed to measure the speed of the mobile and decide which coverage layer to push the mobile to (macro, micro, pico) to reduce the handover rate and therefore, the amount of signalling within the core network. GSM systems have cells of different frequencies and reuse frequencies geographically for capacity reasons. However, even if your high enough to see many of these cells at the same time - you'd have to be higher than typical GA (over 10,000ft at greater than 5W) to have any affect. Mobile phones are typically 500mW only. As macro cells are typically 35miles wide - at 2000ft @5W the radio horizon is approx. 40miles and you'd see maybe three cells. At 5000ft @5W the radio horizon in approx. 70miles and you'd see maybe seven or so cells. At 10,000ft @ 5W the radio horizon is approx. 110miles so you'd see maybe a dozen or so cell sites. The typical macro frequency reuse distance is 9 cells. So at 10,000ft you would typically only see maybe two cells of the same frequency. At 500mW the distances will be less than the examples above...

Now UMTS and LTE systems are totally different. The UMTS system was designed for the newer high speed trains found in Europe and can cope with higher speeds. Also UMTS & LTE systems are actually designed so that a mobile can transmit and receive from multiple cell sites at the same time in normal operation. In many cases; these cells all work on the same frequency so in the example above it would be normal operation to have multiple cells talking to your mobile and your mobile talking to multiple cells all at the same time. The download speed increases in LTE and LTE-A are from techniques where data is sent to the mobile from multiple cells at the same time. The same is true for upload speed increases. So in the situation above even if your mobile signal was received by multiple cells - the system would either make use of it or ignore you. If the cell ignores your mobile then you are seen as just noise to be filtered which is normal operation.

I have to put the caveat that I'm knowledgeable of many areas of mobile networks but would not consider myself an expert. I'm also not a frequency planner (but sit next to one on a day to day basis). So I'm happy to be corrected on any of the above.

So from my thinking and understanding - and I'm happy to be corrected with tangible evidence. The issue of "using a mobile while flying causes problems with the mobile network because the mobile camps on many cells because it can see many cells at the same time and therefore clogs up the network" nobody looses any sleep over as by the nature of the current mobile network systems it is not a problem and the systems deal with it as designed.

However, you will burn through your mobile's battery much faster as if it is GSM it will transmit at maximum power until it gets a response. If UMTS/LTE it will try an educated guess at an appropriate transmit power - if no answer from the network it will increase the power and keep going through this cycle until it is transmitting at maximum power where it will remain. If the mobile has a signal and camped on the network; when flying there is a greater chance of the mobile moving between location areas and routing areas faster than when walking, driving or on fast trains so the mobile will be very chatty. (this is what you hear when a GSM mobile interferes with audio frequency amplifiers - the chirp chirp you hear in your headphones)

However, the legal side of using non-approved telegraphy equipment in an airplane is another matter entirely...

[Agaricus bisporus]

Simple.

It is illegal to use a mobile phone from an aircraft. (excepting licenced systems installed in airliners, obviously). To do so is an offence - probably a criminal offence and for very good reasons against the Wireless Telegrapy act of 19**. (related to a historical rule about antennae attached to elevated structures I believe)

You may choose to ridicule this but it doesn't alter that fact that you may not do so, and of course responsible citizens won't.

[thing]

and of course responsible citizens won't.

Quite right too. I wouldn't dream of using mine your honour.

I take it then that Skydemon are breaking the law by producing an app to be used on a mobile phone whilst flying? Or is the onus on the user? And can said user then sue Skydemon if found to be falling foul of the law?

[500ft]

This is one of those threads that makes me curious about how rules can differ in different places.

I have always encouraged my passengers to text if they want and leave my phone on. After a quick google I found this from 2010. Use your phone in NZ but perhaps don't divert your office phone.

Cellphone Use VFR

On 10 November 2007,a Fletcher FU24-950EX aircraft collided with terrain while top-dressing near Opotiki. The pilot was killed in the accident and the aircraft was destroyed.

The aircraft was fitted with a cellphone hands-free kit, which enabled the pilot to speak on the phone through his headset. Phone records showed that the aeroplane’s cellphone had been connected that day for more than 90 minutes, on 14 voice calls, and that the pilot was speaking on the phone at the time of the accident. Earlier that year, the same pilot had been talking on the aeroplane cellphone while taking off on a top-dressing flight when the aeroplane hit a sheep on the airstrip.

The Transport Accident Investigation Commission (TAIC) report into the November 2007 fatal accident said, “No single conclusive reason, such as sudden incapacitation, was found to explain why the pilot did not pull up, but the circumstances suggested a combination of factors involving distractions and fatigue.

“The use of cellphones by agricultural pilots flying at low level was not uncommon, and the pilot evidently did so regularly…The accident occurred after more than 7 hours of work and more than 90 takeoffs and landings for that day.”

The TAIC report recommended that the Director of Civil Aviation address the safety implications of the use of cellphones during critical phases of flight while operating under visual flight rules (VFR). The Director has accepted this
recommendation, and rule development will begin on this issue.

Until the rule development process has been completed it is essential that all pilots apply common sense to their use of cellphones for voice calls and text messaging while VFR. Just because there is no rule against it, doesn’t mean it is a safe practice. Never let yourself be distracted from your core task of flying the aircraft, particularly during takeoff and landing, and low level operations.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that the use of cellphones by pilots is happening not just on private flights, and during agricultural operations, but also while on VFR air transport operations. It can be tempting to divert your office landline to your cell and continue to do business, or organise your social life, while flying. The privilege of flying, however, comes with the responsibility of maintaining good airmanship and professionalism at all times. This applies equally to both private and commercial pilots. Make safety your top
priority

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