So when does it all click?
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So when does it all click?
Hello there,
I've been told from many people that it all just 'clicks' one day and I wonder when that's going to be!
I've done 28 hours, flown solo, passed all exams and am currently working on cross country. When I read the books I feel good and confident, I really understand it...then when I'm in the aeroplane I still have to think so hard what to do next, when to do it, what's my height, what's my airspeed, attitude etc etc. You may think this is normal but surely I should be more fluent by now? I am still terrified of spinning the aeroplane as I genuinely thought of giving up after ex11...I didn't enjoy that one!
Any thoughts appreciated
I've been told from many people that it all just 'clicks' one day and I wonder when that's going to be!
I've done 28 hours, flown solo, passed all exams and am currently working on cross country. When I read the books I feel good and confident, I really understand it...then when I'm in the aeroplane I still have to think so hard what to do next, when to do it, what's my height, what's my airspeed, attitude etc etc. You may think this is normal but surely I should be more fluent by now? I am still terrified of spinning the aeroplane as I genuinely thought of giving up after ex11...I didn't enjoy that one!
Any thoughts appreciated
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If its a consolation flying VFR didn't really click completely with me until after 100 hours as a flight instructor so about 320 hours. Before that I thought I knew what I was doing passed all the exams etc but really was going through the motions with what I had been taught. After it clicked I knew what I was doing and the actual control inputs were automatic. I just needed to think I want to be over there in xxx config at yy speed and it would happen while I was spouting the theory and demonstrating while knowing what all the other traffic on frequency was doing. I suppose a bit like when you realise you haven't thought about changing gear or what you did with the clutch in a car on a hill start.
IFR it was after the first winter so was about 500 hours. Before that I didn't have a clue what was going on around me looking back. I only knew what was going to happen in 5 mins time.
These days it automatic for me to think flights in advance and 6 day blocks. The individual flights are just revolutions of the same procedures and its more maint, flight duty times, operation planning issues etc etc The flying is the fun part when nobody can phone me up. But that's the life of a commercial Captain.
Its completely normal so don't worry about it.
IFR it was after the first winter so was about 500 hours. Before that I didn't have a clue what was going on around me looking back. I only knew what was going to happen in 5 mins time.
These days it automatic for me to think flights in advance and 6 day blocks. The individual flights are just revolutions of the same procedures and its more maint, flight duty times, operation planning issues etc etc The flying is the fun part when nobody can phone me up. But that's the life of a commercial Captain.
Its completely normal so don't worry about it.
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As MJ says, the real 'click' is well beyond PPL. The point at which you 'think' the aeroplane around much as you do with your car without being conscious of any control inputs; the point where maintaining 1000 feet in the circuit just happens automatically without you having to think about power, attitude, trim; the point where you want to lose 800 feet in an overhead join and just roll wings vertical without pulling and without even thinking about it, is a couple of hundred hours minimum, I'd say. Maybe quite a bit more for the latter.
Sounds like you're doing OK so far - keep up the good work and the rewards will come!
Sounds like you're doing OK so far - keep up the good work and the rewards will come!
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lindbergh said it best, you don't know how to fly until you have taught someone else how to fly.
so there you go, when you feel you could teach someone else how to fly, you may very well hear the clicking sound.
but if it is from your teeth, see a dentist.
you should be consciously thinking about everything, though I would say altitude and not height...maybe it is a british thing.
a friend told me you are not a real instrument pilot until you can fly an approach to minimums while eating a hamburger.
so, 28 hours...be patient little bird.
so there you go, when you feel you could teach someone else how to fly, you may very well hear the clicking sound.
but if it is from your teeth, see a dentist.
you should be consciously thinking about everything, though I would say altitude and not height...maybe it is a british thing.
a friend told me you are not a real instrument pilot until you can fly an approach to minimums while eating a hamburger.
so, 28 hours...be patient little bird.
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As MJ and Ssd says it takes a while, with me it's been a looooong while , I've got about 800 hours now and recently done my Instrument rating and will be sitting my commercial check ride in a few weeks and am only now thinking this flying thing is clicking and feeling comfortable (hopefully not complacent)with the whole thing.
Being a farm boy I would describe it as the feeling I got in my teens when backing a grain trailer into a shed, or burling the tractor down the right tattie drill or other tractor driving tasks without having to think about it or demolishing stuff , it becomes second nature.
Being a farm boy I would describe it as the feeling I got in my teens when backing a grain trailer into a shed, or burling the tractor down the right tattie drill or other tractor driving tasks without having to think about it or demolishing stuff , it becomes second nature.
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It'll take a while. Indeed, you will only know it has clicked when you look back, and think to yourself, hmmm, that clicked a while back, and I did not notice.
When I was learning to fly, there was this old pilot, who was just around the club all the time. While I was busy dreaming of progressing from a 150 (before the days of 152's) to a 172, I'd see him fly three or four types in a day - never needing a checkout or anything! I always wanted to be a pilot like him.
A few years back, I was flying home from work in my 150. I thought back on what I had flown solo that, and the previous days: I'd flown my 150, a Cessna Caravan, a DA42, a Lake Amphibian, and a Tiger Moth. Click. I was that old pilot, 35 years later. But the click had happened some time ago, as I was capable of flying these planes, and trusted to do so, long before I had.
I don't know when the click happened, and it does not matter really. If you think you have heard it, it was a mirage. Instead, you'll look back one day, and think to yourself, hmm, I clicked a while back, and didn't hear it. You'll just relax and smile to yourself. Ii the mean time, just enjoy....
When I was learning to fly, there was this old pilot, who was just around the club all the time. While I was busy dreaming of progressing from a 150 (before the days of 152's) to a 172, I'd see him fly three or four types in a day - never needing a checkout or anything! I always wanted to be a pilot like him.
A few years back, I was flying home from work in my 150. I thought back on what I had flown solo that, and the previous days: I'd flown my 150, a Cessna Caravan, a DA42, a Lake Amphibian, and a Tiger Moth. Click. I was that old pilot, 35 years later. But the click had happened some time ago, as I was capable of flying these planes, and trusted to do so, long before I had.
I don't know when the click happened, and it does not matter really. If you think you have heard it, it was a mirage. Instead, you'll look back one day, and think to yourself, hmm, I clicked a while back, and didn't hear it. You'll just relax and smile to yourself. Ii the mean time, just enjoy....
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though I would say altitude and not height...maybe it is a british thing.
As soon as we see height we presume circuits or in a MATZ.
Altitude they must be cross country.
Oh and I have flown with commercial pilots that it still hasn't clicked after thousands of hours. And to be honest if there car driving is anything to go by they never will. Just no gut feel or touch with any machinery.
Last edited by mad_jock; 11th Oct 2014 at 06:04.
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A retired airline pilot gave me this advice:-
- At 100 hours you think you'll never get it
- At 1000 hours you think you've got it
- At 10000 hours you know you'll never get it
- At 100 hours you think you'll never get it
- At 1000 hours you think you've got it
- At 10000 hours you know you'll never get it
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Yes, 1000 hours seems to be a dark click. At 1004 hours flying time I was a bit too casual flying a Tomahawk, and had my first dark click. It was the first time I realized that my growing casualness or complacency had lead me to darn near wreck a plane, and I had the experience to recognize that that had nearly happened to me!
Now, with a lot more experience than that, I'm looking over my shoulder a lot more, and seeing how many things could have just gone wrong, but happily didn't. For me, the bliss of ignorance is way behind me!
Now, with a lot more experience than that, I'm looking over my shoulder a lot more, and seeing how many things could have just gone wrong, but happily didn't. For me, the bliss of ignorance is way behind me!
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Sure, but it ain't quite that bad, folks.
Most of us make the transition, before PPL, between
- five minutes is nowhere near long enough to do all the things you have to do to get round the circuit
and
- gosh this circuit is taking forever, wonder if there's anything interesting to look at out of the window.
Most of us make the transition, before PPL, between
- five minutes is nowhere near long enough to do all the things you have to do to get round the circuit
and
- gosh this circuit is taking forever, wonder if there's anything interesting to look at out of the window.
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not a chance in hell I clicked in CPL never mind PPL and I have never seen any PPL click during training. There have been some good uns one of mine is now flying Typhoons. But the instinctive use of the controls to obtain a flight profile nope never happened. And even the ones that were the dogs dangles aka the one that went off to the RAF he didn't have the big pic through his ears of what was going on around him with a mental update of his model with time with the data with no more information.
ie knowing if traffic is going to be infront of you or behind you by its last position and intentions. And which bit of the window to look at to find traffic and when its worth while looking for it. This does presume a back ground in types performance as well. Ie PA38 does 85-90 knts and other types slightly slower or faster.
When it clicks you don't do any calcs you just know its the right time when to look and where to look. The controls might as well be on auto pilot for all the conscience effort it takes to think what to do with them.
ie knowing if traffic is going to be infront of you or behind you by its last position and intentions. And which bit of the window to look at to find traffic and when its worth while looking for it. This does presume a back ground in types performance as well. Ie PA38 does 85-90 knts and other types slightly slower or faster.
When it clicks you don't do any calcs you just know its the right time when to look and where to look. The controls might as well be on auto pilot for all the conscience effort it takes to think what to do with them.
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I began to really learn to fly when I started instructing!
And now I am so old that I have to fly with an instructor, it still comes natural to talk through what I am doing and why.
And now I am so old that I have to fly with an instructor, it still comes natural to talk through what I am doing and why.
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I am interested in this part of the post:-
I would like to know what aircraft you did your spinning in and how you did it - many people who have this reaction I find have done spinning in aircraft that are not really suitable such as C152 or Pa28 or an instructor who uses the technique that results from learning on these aircraft, by this I mean that they pull hard into the entry then have a rushed patter before the aircraft recovers by itself - do spinning on a proper spinning aircraft with a good instructor and it is a far more relaxed affair and few people come away terrified.
I am still terrified of spinning the aeroplane as I genuinely thought of giving up after ex11...I didn't enjoy that one!
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It depends how its taught those exercises.
Some still teach people by getting them to stall and then do a dance on the rudder pedals lifting wings and such nonsense.
Its no wonder some don't like them, and if the instructor is clueless and pass on all the old wifes tales to do with stalling etc it makes it worse.
Hell some instructors are adding on 20knts to book approach speeds because they are clueless and **** scared themselves of stalling.
Some still teach people by getting them to stall and then do a dance on the rudder pedals lifting wings and such nonsense.
Its no wonder some don't like them, and if the instructor is clueless and pass on all the old wifes tales to do with stalling etc it makes it worse.
Hell some instructors are adding on 20knts to book approach speeds because they are clueless and **** scared themselves of stalling.