Do I change flight school 37hrs into training?

[Wingman1972]

Dear all
I am very new to pprune and have enjoyed reading a lot of posts,

I now have a dilemma myself and would love some advice if possible please

I have been training for my ppl for nearly two years now and I must say I am loving it and sometimes struggling and wonder if I have done the right thing,

I train at an airfield which is great, good guys no uniform for me to wear, it's relaxed, I can book slots online as and when I want, my instructor has been very understanding with me working and only being able to get in when funds and time allow,
I am approx 37 hrs into my training I am about to do my first solo nave very short 10 mile round trip
I have already done some circuit consolidation
My dilemma is my instructor has just announced he is leaving, and my other dilemma is I only have 4 months left to complete training or if I think I am correct I will have to sit all seven plus two more exams, I completed all seven cylibuses in one go in July 2013 and my worry is now that I will have to do all 9 new cylabuses at great financial loss of what I have already spent, also I am not sure if I have time to complete the rest of my training , I would just like to know if it is possible and I do wonder if I should look for a school that would cater for my needs rather than stay and hope for the best, I would appreciate any advice guys, please

[LostYetAgain]

Hi Wingman1972, and welcome to the forum.

Would it be worth sitting down with your current instructor to get his advice? As he is leaving he might be more willing to give you an honest view of the club & whether moving to another club might be beneficial for you. If you choose to stay, he should be able to recommend another instructor that he feels would be a good match for you.

Spreading out the training over a number of years isn't ideal. You will no doubt have found out that a longer gap between lessons means the next lesson contains a greater amount of revision. If you want to continue with spread out lessons, then you might consider (re)doing all the exams at the end. Check the current (EASA) rules, but under JAR-FCL you didn't need to have the exams all passed until just before the licence was issued (after the test). Clubs never told you this of course ... they liked students to start the ground school before the first solo.

Another approach you could consider is to save your pennies so you can concentrate the lessons over a much shorted period. That way you will make rapid progress through the flight exercises.

Regards

[Wingman1972]

Hey lostyetagain
Thank you for your reply
I totally agree and would say that having my training spread out over a long period of time has certainly made things difficult to remember each time I go back
I remember having a 4-5 month gap over the last winter months which has not helped at all
I now wish my instructor would have insisted I made it at least once a week or fortnightly that way I would be much further in,
but having the option to come and go as you please made me very relaxed about the whole thing until I had to go solo, I was told I needed to complete my air law exam before this could be achieved, I looked into the exams and found a ground school which offered me to stay for the week and complete all seven exams in one go which I done and passed, I now realize that if I do not complete my ppl within 18 months of my pass then these exams with the now extra 2 syllabus will have to be retaken :-(
I am fortunately now in a position to take the next four months off work and finish up but I do not think there is a instructor available at my airfield to be there 3/4/ times a week to train me? (weather permitting too) I need to check this for sure though, I do wonder if training 3/4/5 times a week might be overdoing things and take the fun out of it too?
I will be seeing my instructor for the last time next week and find out for sure if my needs can be met, I appreciate what you have said and will take it on board thank you for you reply mate
Kindest regards

[Mach Jump]

Hi Wingman. The situation isn't quite as bad as you think.

All the Theoretical Knowledge Exams must be completed over a period of not more than 18 months, but then you have 2 years from the date of passing your last Exam to apply for a licence.

This means that you have until somtime in July 2015 to apply for your PPL. Still not enough time at the rate you are going, so what you need right now, is a clear plan of what you need to do to complete your flight training, and a more focused attitude towards getting it done.

This may require a change of school to achieve your goal, or your present one may just need a kick up the ass to impress on them what you need.

[Wingman1972]

Hi Mach Jump
Thank you for your reply
I have to say I seem to have got it the wrong way around thinking it was 18 months after the last exam!
This does take some pressure off for sure and you are exactly right I do need to get on with it and have a more focused attitude to what I have to do to get this done,
I am going to talk to my instructor on my next lesson and find out if it is achievable to get my ppl within the timeframe available!
If not then I will be looking to move to another flying school,
I do not really want to leave as I am familiar with the airfield, and the area, and friendly with the staff
Also I am familiar with all the different PA28's they use, but if they cannot cater for my needs then I will be looking to go elsewhere,
I very much appreciate your input Mach Jump :-) this forum is the best place for help and advice for sure :-D
Thank you
Kindest regards

[9 lives]

Wingman,

You will find that flying is a series of "tests". They range from an exam, to a "test" of your ability to simply return the aircraft, 'cause it's such a perfect day for flying, and you're enjoying it so much!

As said, stretching out your training over such a period is not ideal, but we understand it happens. The calendar requirements for rewriting the exams could be viewed as a deadline of sorts, or don't worry about it, and go and rewrite the exams, they're only tests. If you're keeping up with the topics, you're increase in experience should make the exams more easy to write - or, you really do need to study for them again! You'll have to agree that your first flights after a long time away involved some re do, of lessons previously learned - so might your ground studies - no big deal....

Welcome to PPRuNe, and the world of aviation. You'll find constantly in aviation that someone's done that before, and there's probably a rule about it. Understanding the rules is good, turning them to your advantage is nice, but if you can't, just go with it. To quote Bader: Regulation is for the guidance of wise men, and the obedience of fools". The regulator thinks a student could become calendar stale on ground study after a number of years. A wise man might agree....

[cockney steve]

This may require a change of school to achieve your goal, or your present one may just need a kick up the ass to impress on them what you need.

Maybe,wingman, this is the kick up the a55 thatyou needed to concentrate your efforts on the practical side ofobtaining a PPL.
you did well to polish off all your theory exams in one fell swoop.
the hours you need to fly,until your GST are a major expense...one assumes thatas you have a large employment -gap,you have sufficient fundsfor completing .

Alternatively,a modest increase in your house -mortgage is always the cheapest form of borrowing.
Oddly enough,credit Cards are now viable,since the greedy bankers started charging obscene rates for overdrafts( you get protection with CC's as well!

IF your school takes on a new instructor with whom you "gel", you need a determined effort to fly as often as you can....winter is upon us and there will be many cancellation days, so carpe diem and all that
They have a vested interest in keeping you training as long as possible.in fact, mr Cynic here would suggest that ,at37 hours, you're in up to the taters, but have to keep going over old ground every time and thus pad the hours.

I'll repeat other's wise words, TALK to the instructor...he's made a good wage from you, it's business, he "owes" you a few minutes to confirm your quickest and most cost-effective way to complete your training
A change of school may well be in order, to a more focussed organisation.

You appear to have had a very laid-backapproach to your practical-work. You may not relish the discipline of "cramming" your last training hours, but remember, once you have that "ticket" you can fly when and where you want to ,and it'll be cheaper!

Up and at it!

[Rod1]

If you can take the time off, find a school in a part of the world with good weather and get them to plan a completion course for you - probably take around 2 weeks. Get the license out of the way and then the fun and the learning really starts. Ironically this approach will probably save you money because of the reduced gap between flights.

Rod1

[Rhino25782]

I do wonder if training 3/4/5 times a week might be overdoing things and take the fun out of it too?

I second what Rod is saying.

I did the exact opposite of what you did. I didn't have the patience to spread it all across years, I wanted the license ASAP. So I went to California and did all practical training in four weeks. There is many others you have done this and there is many arguments AGAINST this, I don't want to recommence that debate here.

But what you should know is: Doing several lessons a week (in fact, several lessons a DAY) is not "overdoing things" at all and it is great fun. In fact, you'll be doing what you love to do (right?) all day! How can you spend the day any better than that? Of course, two lessons per day are exhausting - don't plan anything else during those days.

With your time frame and current progress, I don't even think you need to go away to avoid weather. You could find a school with good availability of instructors and do the flying on the good days to come.

But do consider going to a nice and warm country for, say, two weeks. There is schools in Spain catering to this sort of thing. Sure, getting used to a different airfield, airplane, instructor will take a bit of time - but much less time than your constant "on and off" and relearning what you forgot since the last lesson! In the end, it will make you a more CONFIDENT pilot once you're on your own! How can you fly places if you worry about "other airfields"...

(I passed my skill test "back home" and to familiarize myself with the new environment, and flying in my own country in general after training in the US, I took three familiarization lessons (1x circuits, 1x airwork, 1x local area familiarization and navigation) and the school made me do one "pre-test" with an experienced instructor. I think I could have done it in a bit less than that, too.)

Good luck!

[thing]

I'll second Rod as well. I did mine in 4 months from start to finish and a month of that was lost to bad weather. It may not suit everyone but I learn best when I'm doing something flat out. I dread to think how long it would have taken me if I had done an hour here and an hour there. It's false economy (IMO obviously) to try and spread the lessons out because of cost. Just bite the bullet, save up or borrow and do it all in one fell swoop. Ther's no getting away from the fact that it's an expensive game so make sure you can finance your post skills test flying as well.


There are plenty of places down your neck of the woods-Kemble springs to mind for one-but I've no idea what the schools are like as I'm oop north. Best of luck with it anyway; I really would go at it hammer and tongs if I were you, you will be surprised how much your flying comes on if you do three or four lessons a week. By the way, you mentioned doing a 10 mile XC? That would hardly take you out of the circuit! Are you sure it's not a XC with ten mile legs?

[Piper.Classique]

Ten miles and hardly out of the circuit. Hmm. I would be 9.5 miles from the circuit, assuming it is ten miles out then ten back, but even so that seems more like local area recce.

Some people must do large circuits?

Anyway, for the OP.
Don't rush to change. You have time to do some research first. Talk to your current instructor first, don't worry if you have to change aircraft type, it doesn't take that long to convert, especially if you combine the familiarisation flying with some cross country. Preferably out of sight of home airfield!

[thing]

Ten miles and hardly out of the circuit.

Ten mile triangle is 3.3 miles per side unless my maths has gone pear shaped.

[Rod1]

Back in 1991 I was in the same position as you. I had been ready for my Nav Ex for 3 months but the weather was not up to it (I could only fly at the weekend). Got to the point I would have to redo all the exams so went down to the south of France - actually in the Alps.

One day learning to fly the Robin DR400 (I had not flown one before),and get a feel for the mountains.
One day Dual Nav,
One day Solo Nav (bit exciting as I have no French),
one day GFT - job done - came home.

Should have made the decision to go much quicker.

Rod1

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I train at an airfield which is great, good guys no uniform for me to wear

Is it usual these days for studes to be expected to wear uniforms?

I suspect there's a large element of "three steps forward, two steps back" here as a result of the spread-out training. My advice would be to have several lessons a week, even if that means a temporary break from flying while the required funds are built up. Progress will then be much quicker, and the overall cost much less.

[phiggsbroadband]

.
Most flying schools use '1.5 hr Slots' during the day, so that the 1 hour flight has a half hour for preparation. It all depends upon how 'visible' the timetable is at your airfield... Is it marked up on a white-board? So that you can see who is doing what in each plane. Or is it just written on the back of the instructors fag-packet.


If you can see an empty slot in the afternoon, even though you have flown in the morning, ask if you can have that as well. At this time of year good flying weather is at a premium. You only have 7 hours to go before you have the 45 needed, so try and grab as much as possible before the winter months.


.

[Piper.Classique]

Actually, the OP needs to be ready for test. 45 hours is the minimum legal requirement, and as he or she is at 37 hours and no dual or solo navigation yet, and needs to meet the solo total requirement as well, it will I venture to suggest, take a little over 45 hours.
But the advice to get on with it is sound! Just not to panic yet, do a little research here and elsewhere.

[Wingman1972]

I want to thank everyone for your input guys I really do appreciate it ;-)

And thank you for your wise words step turn :-)

I still have a few lessons left with my current instructor next week,
I will be asking him advice on my current school to see if it is possible to do at least three hours or more a week there?
If not then I will be looking to go elsewhere,
The current stage I am at now is I have done five supervised navs, two of these were land always, my next lesson is my first solo nav where I am expected to fly ten miles from my airfield and then back (sorry for any confusion guys)
I'm guessing that if I get this done successfully then I am ready to do my first solo land away?
I have to agree with what you are a saying that my relaxed attitude has cost me dear in time and money too,
I run my own small business so I have found getting time away and finances a problem
But I am now in a position to fund at least four months off work so I am going to look into getting on with it for sure, until I have spoken with my instructor I won't know where yet, I have to say with the winter looming Spain does sound very appetizing lol
Thank you all so so much for the advice
I feel so much more positive and happy I can get this done,
I will keep you all posted on my progress and I feel very welcome here at pprune Thank You :-)

[Grob Queen]

Hi WIngman,

If its any help at all, I am 150 odd hours and four years into my PPL training. I have thought of changing clubs on numerous occasions, but I am still with my original one and now have three FIs and have just completed by QXC. I wish I had had several trips per week as, when I do, it (funny old thing...) clicks with me easier, and at times I have had two trips in a day and that is a great help. in fact a good pilot friend of mine said right at the start of my training, "Its the studes who do not fly at least once a week who struggle".... I understand what he means now. So you really need to fly as much as possible!!

So, you will do whatever is right for you. But I agree with all the others who say get as much flying as possible. Maybe, have you thought about going with another FI in your school? I wouldn't go with any other FI for years..and that is one of the things that probably held me back. I now have three. Two fantastic friends and another a friend. So it may be worth asking your school if you can have not only a new FI as yours is leaving, but another one two.

GQ

ps, if you like it here, try the dedicated Students Forum on the Flyer Forums. To be honest, I got a little fed up with this site and moved over there. I hardly look in here now........

[Wingman1972]

Hi Grob Queen

Thank you for your reply

I have to say I am amazed at your determination!!
Wow!!! 4 years and 150 hours is serious, I remember when I first went on my first trial flight I fell in love with flying and I wanted to know how quick I could get my licence and my instructor told me it can be done in a year working around my job and finances
It is definately false economy though! And it's only now that I'm getting this kick up the ass that I realize I need to just get on with it and get it done,
I know that not everyone can afford to go training several times a week due to work commitments and finances, I'm sure all these posts here will help some people make up there mind if they can afford it,
I am not sure having lots of different instructors would suit me as I like the personnel touch and I'm sure each instructor have there own way of teaching studes? So maybe this might not help? I don't know?
We fly pa28 diesels but I started out in (petrol) versions av gas, so that was also more time spent on transition, the diesels have fadec, no carb heat, or mixture to worry about but you can only carry three persons,
I am as I said going to talk to my instructor before he leaves next week and see if they can offer a finishing package if not then it's bon voyage for me :-)

Hey best of luck with it all :-) my hat is off to you for dedication and determination

Up up and away eh ;-)

[Heston]

Another way to think about this, is to think that learning to fly is what you are doing. I mean don't worry too much about your progress, and to just get on and do what you can afford/have the time for. Eventually you will qualify and that will enable you move on to another stage of learning about flying (and learning about yourself).


So don't fret about it. Talk to your current instructor (that's a very good idea) and decide what you will emotionally feel comfortable with. If moving feels good, then do that. If staying put feels good, then do that. Only you can know.


You are buying a leisure activity. Treat it the same way you would any other leisure activity. Relax.


(Obviously I mean all this in the context of someone who actually is learning to fly for fun. Not a career.)