microlight vs ppl
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
microlight vs ppl
Hi All,
I am currently doing some investigation into microlight vs normal ppl license.
having done few hours in cesna , it is around £170 in the UK so was thinking of doing microlight which is £120ish per hours.
they need 25 hours for microlight for ppl so was thinking of doing that and then upgrade to full ppl which is another 20 hours.
is this possible , what are the pros and cons as you see them ?
Thanks
I am currently doing some investigation into microlight vs normal ppl license.
having done few hours in cesna , it is around £170 in the UK so was thinking of doing microlight which is £120ish per hours.
they need 25 hours for microlight for ppl so was thinking of doing that and then upgrade to full ppl which is another 20 hours.
is this possible , what are the pros and cons as you see them ?
Thanks
Moderator
For experienced pilots, there is a benefit in experiencing different types of aircraft, including microlights, if they choose. However, I suggest that new candidate pilots will learn flying with more long term value in a certified airplane. With those skills, you can then decide what aircraft type more suits your flying desire. There are certainly some important flying skills which cannot be flown nor trained in microlights.
Avoid thinking of the PPL as your goal. Your goal is to fly, the PPL is just a step along the way. It's not as though you plan to earn your PPL, then stop flying, right? Have a longer term flying strategy (and budget), and you'll worry less about the cost. If you have just enough money to get to the PPL, you could become quite disappointed when you get there. Either you really want to fly more, and the budget is not there, or you're not so keen on flying after all, so why are you there? Think beyond the PPL....
Avoid thinking of the PPL as your goal. Your goal is to fly, the PPL is just a step along the way. It's not as though you plan to earn your PPL, then stop flying, right? Have a longer term flying strategy (and budget), and you'll worry less about the cost. If you have just enough money to get to the PPL, you could become quite disappointed when you get there. Either you really want to fly more, and the budget is not there, or you're not so keen on flying after all, so why are you there? Think beyond the PPL....
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
If you have just enough money for 25 or 45 hours you could be even more disappointed - you get the licence when you've learned to fly, which for many people (regardless of licence type) is around the 65 hour mark (although some do achieve it in the minimum and there is wide variability).
I fly both.
Learning to fly anything is expensive. The economics of running a flying school are not hard to work out, and when you do, you'll see why lessons are not that much more expensive for group A than microlights.
However, you do need a little over half the hours - at least in theory - to get a microlight PPL than a "group A" PPL, so when you compare 25 hours at £120/hr that's a nominal £3k, compared to a nominal £6,300 for 45 hours at £140/hr.
Once you have a licence, the running costs are similarly different. Just taking a quick look on AFORS, the first page of each category....
Cheapest 3-axis microlight:X'Air 582 at £5,200
Cheapest flexwing: Pegasus XL-R £1,800
Cheapest "group A":PA28-140 at £12,000
All perfectly good aeroplanes I've flown, but I'd struggle to explain why any one of them was more fun than the others. Roughly, I'd expect the Cherokee to cost around £90/hr, the X'Air around £45/hr and the XL around £35/hr all in.
So, in total expenditure terms, a money-saving microlight pilot can probably pay in the order of half the price of a similar "group A" pilot.
You can, needless to say, pay a great deal more money in any of the classes, you can also fly cheaper, particularly through syndicate membership, or the more basic LAA aeroplanes which are microlights in all but name.
But basically, expect the cost of "group A" overall to be about double the price to get your licence, and to subsequently fly per hour, as microlighting.
Speaking as somebody who flies both, I like group A for the ability to put people in the back seat, and to fly night and IMC - but for fun the microlights is at-least as much fun, possibly a bit more on the right day.
But - train in what you actually want to fly - learning one thing because you actually want to fly something else and plan to convert is never good economy.
G
Learning to fly anything is expensive. The economics of running a flying school are not hard to work out, and when you do, you'll see why lessons are not that much more expensive for group A than microlights.
However, you do need a little over half the hours - at least in theory - to get a microlight PPL than a "group A" PPL, so when you compare 25 hours at £120/hr that's a nominal £3k, compared to a nominal £6,300 for 45 hours at £140/hr.
Once you have a licence, the running costs are similarly different. Just taking a quick look on AFORS, the first page of each category....
Cheapest 3-axis microlight:X'Air 582 at £5,200
Cheapest flexwing: Pegasus XL-R £1,800
Cheapest "group A":PA28-140 at £12,000
All perfectly good aeroplanes I've flown, but I'd struggle to explain why any one of them was more fun than the others. Roughly, I'd expect the Cherokee to cost around £90/hr, the X'Air around £45/hr and the XL around £35/hr all in.
So, in total expenditure terms, a money-saving microlight pilot can probably pay in the order of half the price of a similar "group A" pilot.
You can, needless to say, pay a great deal more money in any of the classes, you can also fly cheaper, particularly through syndicate membership, or the more basic LAA aeroplanes which are microlights in all but name.
But basically, expect the cost of "group A" overall to be about double the price to get your licence, and to subsequently fly per hour, as microlighting.
Speaking as somebody who flies both, I like group A for the ability to put people in the back seat, and to fly night and IMC - but for fun the microlights is at-least as much fun, possibly a bit more on the right day.
But - train in what you actually want to fly - learning one thing because you actually want to fly something else and plan to convert is never good economy.
G
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LONDON
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But - train in what you actually want to fly - learning one thing because you actually want to fly something else and plan to convert is never good economy.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With respect to Ghengis, if its the most economic way to get a license that you want, then NPPL M followed by conversion to NPPL A is the way to go.
These days most three axis training is carried out on either the Eurostar or the CR42, both of which may be registered either as a microlight or as group A. If you happen to build a bit of post license issue experience on a similar type then transition to spamcans is really not difficult.
Finance-wise, one is looking at 25 x £125/hr or so plus whatever extra you need to get through it. I was put forward for my test in minimum hours, and depending on how you apply yourself, you may be able to also. A previous obsession with aeromodelling or flight sims certainly helps here.
To convert to group A you will need two hours of stall/spin awareness training and an hour of instrument flight appreciation. You can then take a navigation flight test and general flight test.
This is easily the cheapest way to get into the left hand seat of a group A aeroplane. I believe the training on different types to be of benefit if you have a significant aptitude for flying as you will become a more rounded pilot. If you're rubbish then sticking to the same type and the same instructor is always better.
These days most three axis training is carried out on either the Eurostar or the CR42, both of which may be registered either as a microlight or as group A. If you happen to build a bit of post license issue experience on a similar type then transition to spamcans is really not difficult.
Finance-wise, one is looking at 25 x £125/hr or so plus whatever extra you need to get through it. I was put forward for my test in minimum hours, and depending on how you apply yourself, you may be able to also. A previous obsession with aeromodelling or flight sims certainly helps here.
To convert to group A you will need two hours of stall/spin awareness training and an hour of instrument flight appreciation. You can then take a navigation flight test and general flight test.
This is easily the cheapest way to get into the left hand seat of a group A aeroplane. I believe the training on different types to be of benefit if you have a significant aptitude for flying as you will become a more rounded pilot. If you're rubbish then sticking to the same type and the same instructor is always better.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Age: 85
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I started off with an X-Air.
Then ambition crept in and I got a group A aircraft, then a bigger and better one etc.
I had most fun in the X-Air and looking back, changing from that to be with the big boys was a mistake. Flying was never such fun after that.
Drawback of micro light flying is the minority who are very 'hung ho' in their flying, no squark, even no radio and sometimes few checks. As long as you ignore these its lovely flying.
Then ambition crept in and I got a group A aircraft, then a bigger and better one etc.
I had most fun in the X-Air and looking back, changing from that to be with the big boys was a mistake. Flying was never such fun after that.
Drawback of micro light flying is the minority who are very 'hung ho' in their flying, no squark, even no radio and sometimes few checks. As long as you ignore these its lovely flying.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
don't get me wrong , I am not struggling to fund this and can do up tp 200 hours and more as long as I am working
It was to say , I could save some money on hours if the experience is the same . I am no expert and doing research on microlight vs normal light aircraft and trying to find the differences.
I thought if the differences are none or small then I could potentially do that
Also seen some cost per hour for microairplane flex wings as cheap as £50 which can be used to have fun at a very cheap price.
It was to say , I could save some money on hours if the experience is the same . I am no expert and doing research on microlight vs normal light aircraft and trying to find the differences.
I thought if the differences are none or small then I could potentially do that
Also seen some cost per hour for microairplane flex wings as cheap as £50 which can be used to have fun at a very cheap price.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And another thing!
I too feel that microlights and the smaller LAA permit types are the most fun to be had flying. The extreme expense of hiring a PA28/Cessna in the South of England means that I can only think of the money and not the fun when doing so.
You can go just as fast in a microlight as you can in a spamcan, so unless you need to take more than one passenger or feel the need to fly on instruments then going beyond an NPPL M then A is not worth the bother.
I too feel that microlights and the smaller LAA permit types are the most fun to be had flying. The extreme expense of hiring a PA28/Cessna in the South of England means that I can only think of the money and not the fun when doing so.
You can go just as fast in a microlight as you can in a spamcan, so unless you need to take more than one passenger or feel the need to fly on instruments then going beyond an NPPL M then A is not worth the bother.
Mass production, metal aeroplane..... ie Piper PA28, Cessna 150/172 etc, etc....
"spamcan" is just a bit of jargon usually used to describe the range of typical metal American light aeroplanes found in flying clubs.
Incidentally..
Some but very few people have done the conversation from M to SSEA in that few hours. 10ish is more normal.
G
Incidentally..
To convert to group A you will need two hours of stall/spin awareness training and an hour of instrument flight appreciation. You can then take a navigation flight test and general flight test.
G
Fixed wing or flexwing £95 PH at our club in the Northwest of England...
C42 and GT450...details if anybody needs them...just ask,
25hrs is the minimum...most people take longer...some quite a bit...I managed it in 33.
Nick.
C42 and GT450...details if anybody needs them...just ask,
25hrs is the minimum...most people take longer...some quite a bit...I managed it in 33.
Nick.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mare Imbrium
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It really does depend on what you want to do after you've qualified. Modern microlights are highly capable and relatively inexpensive - but limited to pilot and one passenger and day-time VFR only operation. But they are huge fun.
If you just want to fly for fun, on your own or with a mate, then go micro. If you have wider ambitions, then learn on a "spamcan".
You've had some time in a Cessna, so I'd also suggest you go and do a couple of hours in a fixed wing microlight so you can compare.
If you just want to fly for fun, on your own or with a mate, then go micro. If you have wider ambitions, then learn on a "spamcan".
You've had some time in a Cessna, so I'd also suggest you go and do a couple of hours in a fixed wing microlight so you can compare.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: central west scotland
Age: 44
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
microlight or not microlight
Choices:
Light aircraft
"Full" PPL - ie EASA SEP
"Euro" PPL - ie EASA LAPL
"UK" PPL - ie UK NPPL with SSEA rating
Microlight
UK NPPL with Micro rating
So now the questions! (if answer is NO to a question, go to the next one)
Do you want to be/think you might want to be a commercial pilot?
Yes: EASA SEP
Do you want to/think you might want to fly outside the EU
Yes: EASA SEP
Do you want to/think you might want to fly at night, or in cloud?
Yes: EASA SEP
Have you seen what it costs to hire a suitably-equipped aircraft and you have the time and money to keep your skills up to date?
Yes. EASA SEP
And are there local airfields open at night with lights and stuff that you can afford to fly to and from?
Yes. EASA SEP
Do you want to/think you might want to fly a four-seat aircraft?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Having looked at the tatty crocks of pooh that most flying clubs/schools have, do you still want to answer Yes?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Do you want to/think you might want to fly an Annexe 1 aircraft?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Having looked at the tatty crocks of pooh that most flying clubs/schools have, do you still want to answer Yes?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Have you won the lottery and want to own your own aircraft, and that aircraft might be an Annexe 1 aircraft?
Yes. EASA LAPL
Would you like to fly a modern aircraft and not one that looks all tatty and be able to afford lots of flying?
Yes. NPPL SSEA
Do you dislike exams?
Yes. NPPL Micro.
************
Now, as it happens, you can until April next year, do an NPPL (micro) and add an SSEA rating with just one or two more exams and then trade it in for a LAPL.
Misses out on the ridiculous NINE exams in EASA land and the ridiculous questions that are asked (which no-one at our club can answer - especially the one about the time in New Delhi!)
Light aircraft
"Full" PPL - ie EASA SEP
"Euro" PPL - ie EASA LAPL
"UK" PPL - ie UK NPPL with SSEA rating
Microlight
UK NPPL with Micro rating
So now the questions! (if answer is NO to a question, go to the next one)
Do you want to be/think you might want to be a commercial pilot?
Yes: EASA SEP
Do you want to/think you might want to fly outside the EU
Yes: EASA SEP
Do you want to/think you might want to fly at night, or in cloud?
Yes: EASA SEP
Have you seen what it costs to hire a suitably-equipped aircraft and you have the time and money to keep your skills up to date?
Yes. EASA SEP
And are there local airfields open at night with lights and stuff that you can afford to fly to and from?
Yes. EASA SEP
Do you want to/think you might want to fly a four-seat aircraft?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Having looked at the tatty crocks of pooh that most flying clubs/schools have, do you still want to answer Yes?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Do you want to/think you might want to fly an Annexe 1 aircraft?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Having looked at the tatty crocks of pooh that most flying clubs/schools have, do you still want to answer Yes?
Yes: EASA LAPL
Have you won the lottery and want to own your own aircraft, and that aircraft might be an Annexe 1 aircraft?
Yes. EASA LAPL
Would you like to fly a modern aircraft and not one that looks all tatty and be able to afford lots of flying?
Yes. NPPL SSEA
Do you dislike exams?
Yes. NPPL Micro.
************
Now, as it happens, you can until April next year, do an NPPL (micro) and add an SSEA rating with just one or two more exams and then trade it in for a LAPL.
Misses out on the ridiculous NINE exams in EASA land and the ridiculous questions that are asked (which no-one at our club can answer - especially the one about the time in New Delhi!)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ghengis, having done it myself, I think that the few hours of training that you need to convert to group A nppl from microlight are the easiest training hours I ever did. I did mine in minimum hours and I'm sure many others could too.
There is a caveat though: I had a few years and over a hundred hours on 3 axis microlights. I think it still would have been achievable with 6 months and 20 hours of 3 axis microlighting though.
To the OP: You can now hire microlights and thats what I would plan to do to build hours and experience before doing the group A conversion. Typically you have to pay a monthly fee of around £45-60 and then hourly its about £45-55.
This is a very cheap way to build hours and provided you stretch yourself by doing lots of different trips then you'll quickly be in a position to do the conversion in minimum hours.
There is a caveat though: I had a few years and over a hundred hours on 3 axis microlights. I think it still would have been achievable with 6 months and 20 hours of 3 axis microlighting though.
To the OP: You can now hire microlights and thats what I would plan to do to build hours and experience before doing the group A conversion. Typically you have to pay a monthly fee of around £45-60 and then hourly its about £45-55.
This is a very cheap way to build hours and provided you stretch yourself by doing lots of different trips then you'll quickly be in a position to do the conversion in minimum hours.
I have trained a few for the conversion - the standards of flying amongst all PPLs: microlight and otherwise, vary a lot. You must have been one of the good ones!
G
G
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all comes down to a personal view on what to mean by flying, as some aspects are different on Microlights and small certified.
I had a friend approaching me with the question, what way to go, last week. For today I had arranged another friend with a Breezer and me on a C172, so we had a direct comparison on same day, similar weather. After 1 hour flying each, we three sat together and he described what he was thinking of.
In the end he is going part-FCL PPL, with four major reasons expressed to us: 1 - the ability to take wife, children and more then a picknick bag in the plane, 2 - the microlight felt too nervous and "light" to him, so he felt less safe, 3 - he was attracted by the 6pot RollsRoyce sound and repelled from the Rotax behavior, especially oil checking and switch off rodeo, 4 - his naive kindergarden view on a plane was served by the old Cessna and not by the almost brand new Breezer.
In the end things are personal feeling and not really bare facts.
I had a friend approaching me with the question, what way to go, last week. For today I had arranged another friend with a Breezer and me on a C172, so we had a direct comparison on same day, similar weather. After 1 hour flying each, we three sat together and he described what he was thinking of.
In the end he is going part-FCL PPL, with four major reasons expressed to us: 1 - the ability to take wife, children and more then a picknick bag in the plane, 2 - the microlight felt too nervous and "light" to him, so he felt less safe, 3 - he was attracted by the 6pot RollsRoyce sound and repelled from the Rotax behavior, especially oil checking and switch off rodeo, 4 - his naive kindergarden view on a plane was served by the old Cessna and not by the almost brand new Breezer.
In the end things are personal feeling and not really bare facts.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks all,
I much appreciate your help on this.
few things I am unsure about, I am at the moment doing my ppl which involves 8 exams I believe plus 1 practical exam and need to do a minimum of 45 hours.
would this be easa sep or easa lapl?
there are so many acronyms in aviation that is very hard to remember and know what each means, atpl, ppl, cpl, ....
re microlight, one you get your ppl , if you do hours on microlight, would it be counted toward your 200 hours cpl license?
also out of interest , is it easy for someone whom has ppl to get glider license or learn how to fly gliders?
re hours, I practice a lot on flight simulator every time after the lesson and learn quite a bit so hope I will be ready even before 45 hours but need to do that in order to be eligible to pass my exam.
I much appreciate your help on this.
few things I am unsure about, I am at the moment doing my ppl which involves 8 exams I believe plus 1 practical exam and need to do a minimum of 45 hours.
would this be easa sep or easa lapl?
there are so many acronyms in aviation that is very hard to remember and know what each means, atpl, ppl, cpl, ....
re microlight, one you get your ppl , if you do hours on microlight, would it be counted toward your 200 hours cpl license?
also out of interest , is it easy for someone whom has ppl to get glider license or learn how to fly gliders?
re hours, I practice a lot on flight simulator every time after the lesson and learn quite a bit so hope I will be ready even before 45 hours but need to do that in order to be eligible to pass my exam.