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Cessna 150 checkist

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Cessna 150 checkist

Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:01
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Aeroplanes have thousands of ways to kill you. If you can devise a checklist that covers you against every one of those ways, good luck in implementing it.
Complacency is a dangerous thing. Being an impostor is also a dangerous thing.

Adopt a "security state of mind" and reduce the likelihood of being a victim of an aviation incident.

A checklist minimizes such a likelihood by providing a structured approach to performing aviation procedures in a consistent way. It assists in minimizing the risks of that "thinking process" when engaging in aviation context.

WP
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:01
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Just out of interest, do you use a checklist when flying with an instructor/examiner as a part of your SEP renewal requirements?
Absolutely not! We've always been too busy trying to get that s-l-o-w roll really nice!

I did once leave my renewal too late to get a suitably qualified (tailwheel, aeros) instructor to sit in the back. So I did an hour with one of the other (flat earth) guys in a prosaic club PA38. No aeros of course, so I decided it'd be some instrument practice. He put some maps over my side of the windscreen and I put on the hood, and we did a bit of climbing, descending, vectoring onto headings while so doing - the usual 'under the hood' stuff.

I noticed that despite having cruise power set and the attitude where it should be, we were slowly descending. Himself was at a loss to explain this. So I came out from under the hood to to 'have a look'.

We were downwind of some seriously big mountains. "Lee side sink", I said. "Oh right", he said".

But at least he hadn't demanded to see my checklist (I do have a PA38 checklist in my flightbag, which was in the boot of my car at the time).

I wonder if any PA38 checklist has the line:

"If flying downwind of high hills, the aeroplane may experience a reduced rate of climb, or a descent when configured for level flight, and in extreme cases a rate of decent with full power that will have you into the ground in short order".
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:05
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The best checklist I ever came across was in the film 'Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines'.

The German officer read from his checklist:

Nr 1 - Sit down!

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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:11
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A checklist minimizes such a likelihood by providing a structured approach to performing aviation procedures in a consistent way.
Consistently unthinking 'by rote' way? You're not getting it, are you?

The best checklist I ever came across was in the film 'Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines'.

The German officer read from his checklist:

Nr 1 - Sit down!
Lovely! And actually, it perfectly illustrates the point I'm trying to make here.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:18
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checklists are very important to safe flying.

the ONLY time I didn't use a checklist, it was during a flight in a piper cub.

I had only ONE mag on for takeoff and virtually the whole flight.

CHECKLISTS, use em.

There isn't a good reason NOT to use them.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:26
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Glendale, if you need a checklist to ensure you switch on the second mag after starting a Cub, may I respectfully suggest Golf instead?

Or use a checklist that starts "Item 1: Sit down".

Seriously, a very able but aging pilot I know of hung up his headset when he realised he'd flown a full hour in the Tiger Moth on only one mag. He reasoned, wisely in my view, that if his brain had addled enough for him to do that after many decades of not doing that, it was time to stop before something worse happened.

A good reason not to use checklists in simple single crew ops (other than ab initio when they can substitute for a level of knowledge not yet gained) is that they can mask 'not thinking'. And 'not thinking' while operating an aeroplane can be seriously life-threatening.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:38
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Nobody ever suggested that checklists can replace, or even reduce the need for, good airmanship, or the use of common sense and intelligence. Those who have all these properties in absolute total perfection can indeed do without.

The lesser gifted can use a checklist as one of the many possibilities to catch up with any little bit of imperfection popping up.

For myself, flying a very simple craft, I never saw the need for a checklist - till the day I took off with a fuel valve unopened. The engine ran fine during taxi, and while I waited for three planes before me to take off - plenty of time to go through the checklist! The engine hiccupped when I had about -100 metres of runway left - luckily I understood quick, and the engine never stopped, it came back to normal as soon as the valve was opened.

So Mr Skygod, good luck to you, we will eternally worship you and sing your praises. Remembering them from the appropriate checklist from time to time.

If ever you fall from the skies, please posthumously excuse me for coming to your funeral waving a big "WE TOLD YOU" banner.

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 17th Aug 2014 at 18:56.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 18:53
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shaggy sheep


I imagine if you only fly one or two types of planes, you will be comfortable without a checklist.

but if you fly dozens, checklists come in handy.

and by the time you get to the airlines, you can use the checklist process as part of the team building of CRM.

The only thing good about golf is that the golf courses can make landing spots if you need. Just yell FORE good and loud.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 19:31
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I need to buy a Cessna 150/152 checklist. The issue is that I don't know which one to get, as there's Pooleys, AFE and Transair. Any recommendations or just go for any of these three?
Thanks
Dom
Hi Dom. Just in case you are still interested in an answer to your question, now that the pxxxxxg contest has died down a bit, there is not much to choose between the three you have suggested. Of the three, I would buy the AFE one.

As to how you should use your checklist, which bits you memorise, whether you use it as a read-action or action-check, don't bother using it at all, etc etc, etc, ....that's between you and your instructor for now, and entirely up to you after you pass your test.


MJ
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 20:05
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MJ, if you really think a discussion on whether check lists are appropriate in little aeroplanes is a pi55ing contest, you missed the point.

Drift from the OP's original point, maybe. But pi55ing contest it isn't.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 20:12
  #51 (permalink)  
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OP Dom, What year 150 would you like the checklist for? I have most of the Cessna flight manuals, and perhaps I could help you get what you need.

Choosing to use a checklist is not wrong, choosing not to use one might not be wrong either, but you're taking responsibility for your actions, or lack thereof. I did my CPL flight test on the C 150 I had owned for 25 years, a few years back. I'd never really used a checklist, but the instructor reminded me that I'd better use one for the flight test. As I had 2700 hours in that plane, and fly it most days, I struggled to see the need for a checklist, other than that was the operational requirement for that flight. So I copied the APPROVED one from the flight manual - it is the ONLY legal one a pilot could use for that aircraft.

Sometimes I'll fly three or four rather different types in a day - then I'll use checklists on the unfamiliar ones. I one day flew My C 150 to work, then a Caravan, then a DA-42, then a Tiger Moth. The Moth did not seem to have a checklist with it, so I preplanned my own.

In my opinion, if you choose to use the Flight Manual checklist, that is your privilege, and responsible. It must not be a replacement for good airmanship, or familiarity with the aircraft. Other pilots should respect that. If you choose to read from a multi page novel to get a 150 up and back, and use it as the instructions as to how to operate the plane, I'm uneasy with that - your good training should already be telling you how to fly the plane, and what good airmanship is.

Look at the items on a C 150 checklist - what, if omitted, would enable you to get airborne, and be less safe up there? There's really not too much you can miss in such a simple plane. But once you have retractable gear, fuel pumps, cowl flaps, auto feather, and varied operations, a checklist gets to be a good idea. A pilot who tells me they can safely fly anything without reference to the aircraft checklist worries me.....
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 20:30
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A pilot who tells me they can safely fly anything without reference to the aircraft checklist worries me.....
Truly worries me also.

To the OP, welcome to the world of Pprune. Please use a checklist for your flying. Flying is a building block approach, A, B, C, D etc. the checklist is an aid to ensure that you are proceeding with your learning curve, and are safe in doing so. It is very easy to miss something, if doing from memory.

Yes, we all know the ones that kick the tires, light the fires, and spiral themselves into the blue yonder. Good for you. One day it might just go pear shaped, like having the fuel caps left on the Tarmac, or the pullrod left on the front wheel, or heaven forbid, a circuit breaker gone on your comm unit etc etc.

My view, checklists enhance and confirm good airmanship. Good luck with the Cessna 150....
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 20:36
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Interesting views. I learnt on an air squadron. ALL checks and procedures were memorised and I've been using that method since, even on my ppl tests.

In fact if you apply logic all the checks are basically the same in any simple SEP. once a pilot has answered the question 'whats the fuelling arrangement, do I have flaps, if so electric or not, do I have fixed or constant speed prop, do I have retractable gear, do I have an O or IO upfront the checks can be amended accordingly adding or removing what needs to be checked. Flying on one Mag is the same as leaving flaps down or flying full rich ad 6000 ft or forgetting to switch on the radio.

Cut a long story short, I ve used the checks I learnt on a bulldog 25 years ago in extended or abbreviated format from memory for every plane I've flown since and no one has ever complained. Each to his own of course.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 20:45
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An unprofessional "kick the tyres light the fires" attitude has NOTHING to do with not using check lists in simple aeroplanes. But I suspect you know that.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 20:52
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Camargue. I have a good number of hours on Chipmunks. I learnt to fly in one, then owned one, and displayed it. Issue, I jump from that to a Cessna 310, out of that into a YAK 50, out of that into a Baron, out of that into a YAK 52, and on.

Now, with the Chipmunk, I had no need to look at a list, I knew it inside out, but getting into multiple types, then I see a real benefit.

It may just be me, but the utilization of a checklist, ensures that one does not, or would minimize, the chance of missing something.

If you are in that mind set from day one, ie using a list, it stays with you. Also there is nothing wrong with, guided by the POH, having your own list made up. I have it in the Bonanza, made by the guy who operated it before me.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 21:01
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The need for a written checklist in a C 150 is modest, so discussion about complex aircraft and checklists amounts to thread drift. But, at a more basic level, and in the theme of those who memorize their checklists, I think in terms of "Configuration Assurance". It is not so much aircraft type dependent, as operation dependent.

At every change in a phase of flight, ask yourself: "Is the aircraft configured for what I'm going to do with it next?" Then, if need be, use a checklist.

I can jump into a Cessna 182, and pretty well have have things memorized. I can jump into a 182 RG, and add "gear" to my thinking. However, if I take the amphibian version of a 182, and land it on the water with the wheels down, it's going to end badly, and be my fault. So it's not a non thinking "wheels down for landing", it's "what am I doing with this plane next? Is the plane correctly configured for it?".

I would not criticize a pilot for using a paper checklist. But a dedication to assuring configuration for what you're about to do is basic airmanship - a checklist can be weak for making that up. It probably works for the plane, but towbars, chocks and fuel caps are rarely mentioned on the approved checklist for an aircraft - they are airmanship. "I'm about to move it, and fly it, is it configured and secure?"....

Think about your configuration assurance, and use the checklist if you need it.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 21:11
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Yes Pilot DAR, but it is a mindset. The building mentality. If you learn from memory, great. But it is about all aspects of airmanship. A lot goes on pre flight. Not all can be done by sole ref to memory.

On longer navigation trips it becomes, I think, more important. The checklist, is part of that flight. If you think about all you complete. I am not talking here about jumping into the Cub, from the grass strip, to go for a 30 minute flight.

The thread moved to training and checklists and operations, then to the old debate about should you, shoud'nt you. It is all very well for experienced, multi houred pilots, to pour slight scorn on the use of a checklist, but that is the point that some of us are trying to state, is not that helpful.
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 21:19
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But even then you wouldn't be using paper checklists in the air single crew, or would you?
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 21:33
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Maxred I take your point, never flown a 310 so no idea but starting an m14 p? Hell one could fire up an aeio 580, fly several unlimited sequnces and land before the 14 even had the oil in the right place to attempt a start.

My point really is that with a logical and sensible approach you can make and use your own check list for the vast majority of simple sep's. yaks and sukhois excluded!

The danger with memorised checks of course is that you won't remember you forgot a check. !!

But this is something that can be decided with experience and the op can make his own mind up in due course. For now, he should do as instructed!
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Old 17th Aug 2014, 21:50
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MJ, if you really think a discussion on whether check lists are appropriate in little aeroplanes is a pi55ing contest, you missed the point.
I think that when someone (especially someone new) asks a perfectly reasonable and simple question, he/she at least deserves an answer, before people start hijacking the thread to exercise their own conflicting hobby horses.


MJ
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