Cheap(er) flying
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Cheap(er) flying
Hi
I don't know if anyone can help but can anyone give me an idea of the laws surrounding registering a microlight as a 'cat A' aircraft in order to register hours on an EASA PPL and, looking towards the future, counting them as hours towards a CPL as this would make flying a lot cheaper per hour!
Can any microlight be registered? Is there just a paperwork exercise? Would I need any further training (provided it is not tailwheel or complex)? Would an inspection be required?
Thanks
flyboy97
I don't know if anyone can help but can anyone give me an idea of the laws surrounding registering a microlight as a 'cat A' aircraft in order to register hours on an EASA PPL and, looking towards the future, counting them as hours towards a CPL as this would make flying a lot cheaper per hour!
Can any microlight be registered? Is there just a paperwork exercise? Would I need any further training (provided it is not tailwheel or complex)? Would an inspection be required?
Thanks
flyboy97
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Have you thought about a permit aircraft like Jodel D9? Very cheap flying and a delight to fly.
There's a share in one at White Waltham for £1500 then it's about £50 per month and around £15 per hour dry plus fuel.
There are other very cheap to run single seaters - I'm sure that others will provide details
There's a share in one at White Waltham for £1500 then it's about £50 per month and around £15 per hour dry plus fuel.
There are other very cheap to run single seaters - I'm sure that others will provide details
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Getting something registered that has not been before is expensive (LAA) or VERY expensive (CAA), there are microlights that also class as group A depending on weight, get one of these on a permit and do it in a group, that will be about as cheap as you can get.
To re-register an existing microlight as group A is, in most cases, very problematic, as the safety standards are different. The only faintly easy switchover I can think of is the EV97 Eurostar.
Your best bet is to sell it, and to buy a cheap group A aeroplane with an LAA Permit to Fly. Some of those are down in the microlight running cost bracket - Evans VP1, Jodel D9, Group A Cyclone AX3, Group A Rans models and still good fun aeroplanes.
G
Your best bet is to sell it, and to buy a cheap group A aeroplane with an LAA Permit to Fly. Some of those are down in the microlight running cost bracket - Evans VP1, Jodel D9, Group A Cyclone AX3, Group A Rans models and still good fun aeroplanes.
G
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Welcome to pprune, Flyboy!
It also sounds a little like a welcome to the world of aviation is in order too.
While your proposed route might sound sensible, ask yourself why not too many people have done it?
A GtE says, there are big paperwork issues: although, as he says, I have known someone do it with a Eurostar and I suppose one could do it with the C42 and perhaps the Pioneer.
But these are expensive microlights, so won't save you money, and need a lot of cash up front.
Indeed, you will often find the "light aircraft" version of a "microlight" will be cheaper to buy.
While there are things like Taylor Monoplanes, which are light aircraft and so would answer your brief, you could buy a Zenair 601 light aircraft for something that will hold its value and sell later and you can take a pal up with you.
But think also of the value of those "hours": 500 hours in some quirky types will not be much use in the airline world! Haven't all the rules/requirements of CPL hours all changed over the past years anyway.
If you haven't done it yet, check out the Air Pilots - The Honourable Company of Air Pilots section for potential commercial pilots.
It also sounds a little like a welcome to the world of aviation is in order too.
While your proposed route might sound sensible, ask yourself why not too many people have done it?
A GtE says, there are big paperwork issues: although, as he says, I have known someone do it with a Eurostar and I suppose one could do it with the C42 and perhaps the Pioneer.
But these are expensive microlights, so won't save you money, and need a lot of cash up front.
Indeed, you will often find the "light aircraft" version of a "microlight" will be cheaper to buy.
While there are things like Taylor Monoplanes, which are light aircraft and so would answer your brief, you could buy a Zenair 601 light aircraft for something that will hold its value and sell later and you can take a pal up with you.
But think also of the value of those "hours": 500 hours in some quirky types will not be much use in the airline world! Haven't all the rules/requirements of CPL hours all changed over the past years anyway.
If you haven't done it yet, check out the Air Pilots - The Honourable Company of Air Pilots section for potential commercial pilots.
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Why should one go this route?
Microlights were born due to costs, yes. But the cost reduction was related to ignore all the safety bells and whistle of a certified aircraft. Now you ask the cheap way to turn history back? Yes, there are certain microlights being constructed as either microlight or light, but they are few. If you now change microlight to light aircraft you have to do most of the paperworks and reconstruction, which was denied to get the costs down. As every businessman will tell you - changing things later is more expensive as if you had done it from day one.
So, yes, you could do something like proposed, but it ain't cheaper.
And what would you end up? I would love to hear the laughter, when an applicant tells he has 200 hours on a C42. If you go for an old 10k C172 6-cyl they will kind of accept you, but not if you present your hours on a brown-packing-tape flying device.
Microlights were born due to costs, yes. But the cost reduction was related to ignore all the safety bells and whistle of a certified aircraft. Now you ask the cheap way to turn history back? Yes, there are certain microlights being constructed as either microlight or light, but they are few. If you now change microlight to light aircraft you have to do most of the paperworks and reconstruction, which was denied to get the costs down. As every businessman will tell you - changing things later is more expensive as if you had done it from day one.
So, yes, you could do something like proposed, but it ain't cheaper.
And what would you end up? I would love to hear the laughter, when an applicant tells he has 200 hours on a C42. If you go for an old 10k C172 6-cyl they will kind of accept you, but not if you present your hours on a brown-packing-tape flying device.
ChickenHouse
Can't let you get away with that ! " Microlites ignoring all the safety bells and whistles of certified aircraft " in the interests of costs ? Nowhere even near accurate.
The impetus to develop microlites certainly arose from a perceived need to produce a safe aeroplane that would cost only one arm and leg and not two.
Microlite aircraft go thru' a procedure every bit as testing as that employed for certified aircraft. It is called Section S.
Section S sets the parameters for engineering and aerodynamics culminating in a set of limitations for each class of microlite.
The principal benefits gained from operating a microlite are economic. The fuel burn is generally about half or less than that of a conventional certified a/c. And more significantly, about 90% of the aircraft maintenance can be done by the owner. The remaining ten percent can be also but, must be signed off by an inspector.
I gave up certified a/c years ago when my Robin went in for its Annual requiring little work and I was attacked by an invoice for just short of £10K. I now operate a Group A Permit a/c, do all the work myself and have a bill for the Annual Permit of £200 including a 50 hour service. And I now know an awful lot more about how my a/c works.
My advice to flyboy97 is to contact the LAA via their website. If you can't find something attractive and economical I'll slurp the waste oil from my 80hp, four stroke Rotax which while not certified, has a TBO of 2000hrs or, thereabouts, and guzzles fuel at the rate, in the cruise, of around 12 liters per hour! Which amount, in a PA28, wouldn't enable you to taxi from the ramp to the hold - to make a point !
Can't let you get away with that ! " Microlites ignoring all the safety bells and whistles of certified aircraft " in the interests of costs ? Nowhere even near accurate.
The impetus to develop microlites certainly arose from a perceived need to produce a safe aeroplane that would cost only one arm and leg and not two.
Microlite aircraft go thru' a procedure every bit as testing as that employed for certified aircraft. It is called Section S.
Section S sets the parameters for engineering and aerodynamics culminating in a set of limitations for each class of microlite.
The principal benefits gained from operating a microlite are economic. The fuel burn is generally about half or less than that of a conventional certified a/c. And more significantly, about 90% of the aircraft maintenance can be done by the owner. The remaining ten percent can be also but, must be signed off by an inspector.
I gave up certified a/c years ago when my Robin went in for its Annual requiring little work and I was attacked by an invoice for just short of £10K. I now operate a Group A Permit a/c, do all the work myself and have a bill for the Annual Permit of £200 including a 50 hour service. And I now know an awful lot more about how my a/c works.
My advice to flyboy97 is to contact the LAA via their website. If you can't find something attractive and economical I'll slurp the waste oil from my 80hp, four stroke Rotax which while not certified, has a TBO of 2000hrs or, thereabouts, and guzzles fuel at the rate, in the cruise, of around 12 liters per hour! Which amount, in a PA28, wouldn't enable you to taxi from the ramp to the hold - to make a point !
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I can give a real life example of the procedure to change from the 'microlight' category to 'group A'.
I purchased a Jabiru UL-450 that was a 'microlight' and because I had a PPL I wanted it so I could log my hours.
Basically all I had to do was fill in the LAA form and send off £135. There were a couple of changes I had to do beforehand. The first one was that most of the placards in the aircraft had to be replaced as once in 'Group A', there is no minimum empty weight as there is in the 'microlight' category. On mine, I also had to have the flaps adjusted. I am not sure why that was required but I did have to have it done. I just got my LAA inspector to change the placards and do the flaps and he filled in a worksheet that went off to the LAA with the form and cheque.
I was told by the LAA that it would take about 4 weeks and that the aircraft was grounded until the process was complete.
Be aware that the LAA take ages to do anything other than normal permit renewals. It actually took them 9 weeks to complete it and the aircraft could not be flown during that time.
After that 9 weeks, I received a new permit and registration and the aircraft is now called a Jabiru SPL-450 and now I can log my hours.
I purchased a Jabiru UL-450 that was a 'microlight' and because I had a PPL I wanted it so I could log my hours.
Basically all I had to do was fill in the LAA form and send off £135. There were a couple of changes I had to do beforehand. The first one was that most of the placards in the aircraft had to be replaced as once in 'Group A', there is no minimum empty weight as there is in the 'microlight' category. On mine, I also had to have the flaps adjusted. I am not sure why that was required but I did have to have it done. I just got my LAA inspector to change the placards and do the flaps and he filled in a worksheet that went off to the LAA with the form and cheque.
I was told by the LAA that it would take about 4 weeks and that the aircraft was grounded until the process was complete.
Be aware that the LAA take ages to do anything other than normal permit renewals. It actually took them 9 weeks to complete it and the aircraft could not be flown during that time.
After that 9 weeks, I received a new permit and registration and the aircraft is now called a Jabiru SPL-450 and now I can log my hours.
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Not a big thing if it has been done before as I believe is the case with the Jabiru, suspect it would be harder if not, much easier to just buy into an aircraft already on a permit.
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Get a Tipsy Nipper mate.
If you ignore the engine fund and I was lucky enough to get free hangarage
my flying costs work out at £36 per hour including fuel. How so ?
I dont thrash the a/c and cruise at 80 kt which keeps the fuel burn to 8-9 Lt per hour. (Jabiru ) I have it insured on a ground risks only policy which actually allows 20hours flying "for the purposes of test flying, relocation, demonstration to prospective purchasers etc etc" Cost £182 per year. I service it my self and
do all the maintenance.
The down side... if you are over 5 ft 9 inches, forget it..no headroom and your thighs foul the mainspar, and its single seat.
And best of all...I'TS AEROBATIC
All the best
If you ignore the engine fund and I was lucky enough to get free hangarage
my flying costs work out at £36 per hour including fuel. How so ?
I dont thrash the a/c and cruise at 80 kt which keeps the fuel burn to 8-9 Lt per hour. (Jabiru ) I have it insured on a ground risks only policy which actually allows 20hours flying "for the purposes of test flying, relocation, demonstration to prospective purchasers etc etc" Cost £182 per year. I service it my self and
do all the maintenance.
The down side... if you are over 5 ft 9 inches, forget it..no headroom and your thighs foul the mainspar, and its single seat.
And best of all...I'TS AEROBATIC
All the best
