Wittman Tailwheel W8
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Wittman Tailwheel W8
What do people know about this one.
have done a bit of googling and it would suggest goes fast, lands short, easy to fly, takes a reasonable load, a bit ugly to look at.
The perfect aircraft? Not sure that exists, what am I missing.
have done a bit of googling and it would suggest goes fast, lands short, easy to fly, takes a reasonable load, a bit ugly to look at.
The perfect aircraft? Not sure that exists, what am I missing.
One of my coworkers has one and he loves it. It flies often. I haven't been in it yet.
The perfect $25K aircraft although the W10 Tailwind is better :-)
I have a friend who has a W10 that'll do about 205 mph on an O-320, climbs at 2000 fpm with CS prop, is easy to get into, seats two in pretty good comfort, operates from small airports and has room for bags. About the same performance as an RV4 with more room and not particularly hard to fly. Wittman was a practical genius who learned from air racing so long ago that basically nobody is alive to remember it first hand.
Its also outrageously loud in the cabin, handles a bit weirdly, is delicately constructed and impresses no one but those who know. Actually the appeal is just that. In order to appreciate the Tailwind you need to mentally separate yourself from 2014 and put yourself into a time when going fast, far, free and cheap was the objective... And you did it more so than you talked endlessly about it. Some get it, some don't
Edited to add that I was right seat when this was taken.
I have a friend who has a W10 that'll do about 205 mph on an O-320, climbs at 2000 fpm with CS prop, is easy to get into, seats two in pretty good comfort, operates from small airports and has room for bags. About the same performance as an RV4 with more room and not particularly hard to fly. Wittman was a practical genius who learned from air racing so long ago that basically nobody is alive to remember it first hand.
Its also outrageously loud in the cabin, handles a bit weirdly, is delicately constructed and impresses no one but those who know. Actually the appeal is just that. In order to appreciate the Tailwind you need to mentally separate yourself from 2014 and put yourself into a time when going fast, far, free and cheap was the objective... And you did it more so than you talked endlessly about it. Some get it, some don't
Edited to add that I was right seat when this was taken.
Last edited by Silvaire1; 29th Jul 2014 at 05:04.
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Lovely aircraft. Handing is odd, if you have long legs it is very uncomfortable (well the one I flew was), not "easy" on the tail w scale. Monstrously good value for the performance.
Rod1
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have done a bit of googling and it would suggest goes fast, lands short, easy to fly, takes a reasonable load, a bit ugly to look at.
the original W8 had a flat bottomed wing and small strut.
the later W8's have "the new improved wing" and a wider chord strut.
my W8 is one of the latter.
ok lets look at your quote...
goes fast.
Vne is 160knots regardless of the engine.
on an O-200 with a 64" dis x 62" pitch wooden prop turning 2500rpm a straight and level cruise of 120 knots is feasible. if the prop is in really good nick about 124 knots in cold weather is possible.
fastest straight and level cruise I have heard of is with a 2 position hoffman motor glider prop on a sparklingly cold morning behind a good O-200. 138 knots.
an O-200 turning 2500 rpm on 91 octane unleaded fuel burns 21.5 litres per hour thereabouts.
lands short.
I operate from a 600m grass strip without problem.
approach speed is best at 70 knots. over the fence slowing to a 3 point touchdown at about 42 knots. (had to get my daughter to tell me this. I never look inside during the flare) btw computed minimum drag speed is 80 knots.
easy to fly.
my time was all in cessna 150's and 152's prior to doing a tailwheel endorsement in an Auster J1B.
I rate the auster as a quantum harder to fly than a cessna 150.(mainly in the landings) the tailwind is a quantum harder again to fly than the Auster.
in the cessna you can trim the aircraft, look around, fly a bit, get a map refolded, fly a bit and generally relax.
the tailwind is neutrally stable in all axes. it requires very little control input to do anything. the key to stable flight is to rest your arm across your thigh and use a gentle grip.
do any of the sloppy stuff you get away with in the cessna and you will be off course and 500ft out of altitude before you know it. you must always fly the tailwind.
takes a reasonable load
my empty weight is 362kg. Max all up weight is 590kg.
my tank holds 114 litres of fuel usable and that weighs 82kg.
I flight plan on a pilot weight of 90kg.
on long distance flights I depart with full fuel and a sausage bag of kit strapped in the passenger seat.
to remain within cg limits I can fly in these scenarios...
pilot, full fuel, no pax seat load, 27kg aft baggage - down to no fuel and be in limits.
pilot, full fuel, 66kg baggage in pax seat, no aft baggage - down to no fuel and be in limits.
a bit ugly to look at.
mercifully the air has no eyes. the design is one of the most efficient aeroplanes on the horsepower ever designed.
look at Stinton's book Design of the Aeroplane and you will find the W8 down in the bottom left corner of all the graphs.
my experience was 30 hours of elevated heart rate flying. 30 hours of slightly elevated heart rate flying followed by 30 hours of getting comfortable in the flying.
it is possible to land a Tailwind in windsock horizontal conditions across the strip. it isn't fun, it gets your focussed attention but I've done it.
I have something like 450 hours on mine now and I wouldn't trade it for all the gold in china.
W8
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Wittman Tailwind
I had one of these, 400 hrs very happy fast cruising, they are the RV of their day
I flew round the UK, France, Spain in mine
Designed by Steve Wittman, air racer from the golden years
I met Steve Wittman in a burger queue at 1993 Reno Air Races who still flew his with his wife at the time.
I moved on to Pitts Specials, but the Tailwind was good preparation as the landing speeds and squirrelly nature are similar.
Pitts driver Skip Stewart has one, running a 3 blade prop, painted the same as his Pitts, it looks fantastic and almost futuristic
Probably it's use is as Wittman intended -a fast support aircraft
I flew round the UK, France, Spain in mine
Designed by Steve Wittman, air racer from the golden years
I met Steve Wittman in a burger queue at 1993 Reno Air Races who still flew his with his wife at the time.
I moved on to Pitts Specials, but the Tailwind was good preparation as the landing speeds and squirrelly nature are similar.
Pitts driver Skip Stewart has one, running a 3 blade prop, painted the same as his Pitts, it looks fantastic and almost futuristic
Probably it's use is as Wittman intended -a fast support aircraft
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to land a tailwind successfully you get 4 things together at the point of touchdown.
fuselage aligned in the direction of flight
no sideslip
minimum forward airspeed
zero vertical speed
get all those four together at the point of touchdown and you'll grease it on.
btw the ground handling is made challenging when the tailwheel is geared as per wittman's plans. the tailwheel is over geared. reduce the link arm distance on the rudder bellcrank to about 55% of the original distance and the ground handling becomes a pussy cat.
fuselage aligned in the direction of flight
no sideslip
minimum forward airspeed
zero vertical speed
get all those four together at the point of touchdown and you'll grease it on.
btw the ground handling is made challenging when the tailwheel is geared as per wittman's plans. the tailwheel is over geared. reduce the link arm distance on the rudder bellcrank to about 55% of the original distance and the ground handling becomes a pussy cat.
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the performance figures he quotes in the listing seem accurate.
O-320 powered Tailwinds climb out like dingbats.
cruise fuel consumption would be about 32 to 35 litres per hour.
The W10 wingtip mods seem to have been added to an early model flat bottom aerofoil W8.
supposedly it makes the tailwind behave better in the flare. I haven't flown a W10 wing so I can't verify that.
I can email legible photos of the plans if you want to check it out further.
W8
O-320 powered Tailwinds climb out like dingbats.
cruise fuel consumption would be about 32 to 35 litres per hour.
The W10 wingtip mods seem to have been added to an early model flat bottom aerofoil W8.
supposedly it makes the tailwind behave better in the flare. I haven't flown a W10 wing so I can't verify that.
I can email legible photos of the plans if you want to check it out further.
W8
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What to look out for
That W8 looks great
Here's a few things to check - just tailwind specific
The main one is that the Wittman main gear joins the engine mount in a complex welded cluster
This will crack as it takes a lot of punishment, so work checking
it's easy to inspect if you drop the bottom cowl, die penetrant
( xtremeair Sbachs recently suffered from the same problem and were expensively grounded until new mounts could be made)
The Wittman main gear is prone to shimmy on hard runways if not set right, this is not nice on landing
The Wittman main gear can crack at the axle, worth checking
The sternpost is prone to cracking
Finally, it was the wing covering peeling off that got Steve Wittman, worth checking
Here's a few things to check - just tailwind specific
The main one is that the Wittman main gear joins the engine mount in a complex welded cluster
This will crack as it takes a lot of punishment, so work checking
it's easy to inspect if you drop the bottom cowl, die penetrant
( xtremeair Sbachs recently suffered from the same problem and were expensively grounded until new mounts could be made)
The Wittman main gear is prone to shimmy on hard runways if not set right, this is not nice on landing
The Wittman main gear can crack at the axle, worth checking
The sternpost is prone to cracking
Finally, it was the wing covering peeling off that got Steve Wittman, worth checking
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Owned and flew one several years ago and yes it was fun.
Had a couple of interesting times in it but on balance quite easy to fly but I did monitor rate of descent on approach!
Ugly - No
A hoot to fly and simple to own.
Sold in favour of a Pup for aeros.
Had a couple of interesting times in it but on balance quite easy to fly but I did monitor rate of descent on approach!
Ugly - No
A hoot to fly and simple to own.
Sold in favour of a Pup for aeros.
Steve Wittman's fatal crash in the O&O special was due to improper covering procedures. This is not a fault with the design. NTSB report here:
ATL95FA092
ATL95FA092
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The Wittman main gear is prone to shimmy on hard runways if not set right, this is not nice on landing
The Wittman main gear can crack at the axle, worth checking
The sternpost is prone to cracking
The Wittman main gear can crack at the axle, worth checking
The sternpost is prone to cracking
shimmy in the main gear is caused by wear on the attach bolt at the top of the leg. if the bolt gets a flat spot or two on it the leg will shimmy.
if touching the brakes lightly gets rid of the shimmy then replace the bolts.
mine has been flying for 29 years and nothing cracked yet.
the original poster and his dad need to go for a flight with the owner.
judge on the basis of fact not hearsay.
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Hearsay?
No
Just specific wear and tear over many years which we experienced on our W10 , which has a lot of hours and a lot of landings and is still going strong
All fixable
No
Just specific wear and tear over many years which we experienced on our W10 , which has a lot of hours and a lot of landings and is still going strong
All fixable
If you squint at the photo I posted above you may be able to see that the gear is streamlined solid aluminum with no fairings required. The brake lines are gun drilled through the gear legs (no external lines) and the legs themselves are bolted into the engine mount with three through bolts per side, IIRC. Its a nicely done one off installation.
The brake lines are gun drilled through the gear legs (no external lines) and the legs themselves are bolted into the engine mount with three through bolts per side, IIRC. Its a nicely done one off installation.
