Broken down in France
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I hope that Piperboy has found airworthiness, and a safe trip home. That said, I suggest caution against recommendations for repair which does not conform to the specified maintenance practice for the aircraft, or worse operating it with known unservicabilities, without knowing the implications of doing that.
In Canada, the applicable regulation says:
For Piperboy's aircraft, the Type Certificate Data Sheet says:
I would expect that the stall warning, in addition to many other systems, would require electricity, and no, just a well charged battery does not meet the requirement.
Yes, some aircraft types are permitted operation with some failed systems, and yes, some don't even have electricity, so no problem for them. However, most aircraft require it - not optional for takeoff.
The battery of a certified aircraft will have demonstrated the capacity to run a selected portion of the electrical system for 30 minutes, but maybe not much more. When I did a electrical load analysis of a Cessna Caravan, I found that from the factory, the amount of time the battery would continue to operate the minimum required systems beyond 30 minutes was 40 more seconds.
The internet affords us the opportunity to discuss things, which perhaps should be discussed with great reserve. Most certified aircraft dispatched with inoperative electrics would not meet the Type Certificate, and thus be legally unairworthy. This has serious insurance implications, particularly if an accident is in any way associated with the defect.
Sorry to be the writer of doom, and I wish the best for Piperboy, and those who have a breakdown away, but we do voluntarily fly the aircraft bound by regulation. I would not want to be on record here as promoting bypassing the regulations. Can I say that every flight I have flown was in a perfectly airworthy aircraft? Nope! But I'm not discussing the details here!
I have a long trip (40 hours of flying) next week. Several components I could possibly need are in my workshop, packaged, and ready to ship to me wherever, should I have a failure, and require a replacement along the way. (The most likely is a tailwheel assembly!) For those who fly long flights, having access to some common spares, and the means to re and re them, is worth consideration. This is one benefit of a teamwork club group, so you're not on your own....
In Canada, the applicable regulation says:
Unserviceable and Removed Equipment — Aircraft without a Minimum Equipment List
605.10 (1) Where a minimum equipment list has not been approved in respect of the operator of an aircraft, no person shall conduct a take-off in the aircraft with equipment that is not serviceable or that has been removed, where that equipment is required by
605.10 (1) Where a minimum equipment list has not been approved in respect of the operator of an aircraft, no person shall conduct a take-off in the aircraft with equipment that is not serviceable or that has been removed, where that equipment is required by
- (a) the standards of airworthiness that apply to day or night VFR or IFR flight, as applicable;
- (b) any equipment list published by the aircraft manufacturer respecting aircraft equipment that is required for the intended flight;
......
Equipment The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable
airworthiness regulations (see certification basis) must be installed in the aircraft for certification. In addition, the following items of equipment are
required:
(A) Stall Warning Indicator, Maule drawing 6016F
.........
Equipment The basic required equipment as prescribed in the applicable
airworthiness regulations (see certification basis) must be installed in the aircraft for certification. In addition, the following items of equipment are
required:
(A) Stall Warning Indicator, Maule drawing 6016F
.........
Yes, some aircraft types are permitted operation with some failed systems, and yes, some don't even have electricity, so no problem for them. However, most aircraft require it - not optional for takeoff.
The battery of a certified aircraft will have demonstrated the capacity to run a selected portion of the electrical system for 30 minutes, but maybe not much more. When I did a electrical load analysis of a Cessna Caravan, I found that from the factory, the amount of time the battery would continue to operate the minimum required systems beyond 30 minutes was 40 more seconds.
The internet affords us the opportunity to discuss things, which perhaps should be discussed with great reserve. Most certified aircraft dispatched with inoperative electrics would not meet the Type Certificate, and thus be legally unairworthy. This has serious insurance implications, particularly if an accident is in any way associated with the defect.
Sorry to be the writer of doom, and I wish the best for Piperboy, and those who have a breakdown away, but we do voluntarily fly the aircraft bound by regulation. I would not want to be on record here as promoting bypassing the regulations. Can I say that every flight I have flown was in a perfectly airworthy aircraft? Nope! But I'm not discussing the details here!
I have a long trip (40 hours of flying) next week. Several components I could possibly need are in my workshop, packaged, and ready to ship to me wherever, should I have a failure, and require a replacement along the way. (The most likely is a tailwheel assembly!) For those who fly long flights, having access to some common spares, and the means to re and re them, is worth consideration. This is one benefit of a teamwork club group, so you're not on your own....
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I'm not sure of the serviceability status of Bleriot's alternator when he crossed the channel...................
Sorry......Jet lagged sarcasm!
Seriously, as advised frequently here, just go.
Stay VMC, switch off the radio, stay well ahead of the a/c always with a mind for possible diversion airfields en-route, and marvel at the countryside (and sea!) passing you by.
The wings will stay on, and the donkey will continue to make noise with no electricity, I promise!!
Good luck (and enjoy the "adventure"!),
Jez
Sorry......Jet lagged sarcasm!
Seriously, as advised frequently here, just go.
Stay VMC, switch off the radio, stay well ahead of the a/c always with a mind for possible diversion airfields en-route, and marvel at the countryside (and sea!) passing you by.
The wings will stay on, and the donkey will continue to make noise with no electricity, I promise!!
Good luck (and enjoy the "adventure"!),
Jez
Well, what a fuss. I flew for ten years without any sort of radio, and we only installed a transponder three years ago. Never stopped me traveling. Flew from Poland to the west coast of France radio inop, no transponder, which involved a certain amount of telephone calls. Flew for six months generator inop, and have never had a stall warning on the Cub or any of the gliders I fly, two of which at least had «interesting» behavior at the stall.
This is VFR flying, people. Use the real horizon, map, and compass, stopwatch. Use the radio if you want, learn to handprop. I can hand start an O—360 on a taildragger, and I am far from tall. (OK, now is probably not the moment to learn, get someone to teach you properly)
This is a Maule, not a 747 we are talking about. Mind you, with the forecast as it is for the next couple of days, looks like a couple of days holiday in Rennes is on the programme.
Enjoy the food and wine!
This is VFR flying, people. Use the real horizon, map, and compass, stopwatch. Use the radio if you want, learn to handprop. I can hand start an O—360 on a taildragger, and I am far from tall. (OK, now is probably not the moment to learn, get someone to teach you properly)
This is a Maule, not a 747 we are talking about. Mind you, with the forecast as it is for the next couple of days, looks like a couple of days holiday in Rennes is on the programme.
Enjoy the food and wine!
As talkdownman posted - he does not have to fly all the way back to scotland to get it fixed and i am sure Popham or other airfields in the sunny south would be the answer - he might as well get it fixed in england whilst we still have a common currency ; )
As others have said - a handheld would be useful
And wait a coupla days until the weather improves !
As others have said - a handheld would be useful
And wait a coupla days until the weather improves !
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This happened (or something very much like it) to me near Stockholm. It turned out after quite literally replacing everything else that it was high resistance in the field circuit breaker. I still have the offending item on my desk as I write this. Just flick the circuit breaker with a fingernail. You never know.
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@A&C & @Victorian Have both , effectively, given a similar hint.
CHECK TIGHTNESS OF CONNECTIONS AIUI,the specified torques for the terminals are far lower than your normal Automotive spannerman would use...the figures do not account for burred threads, burning from previous arcing or even different friction if the tin-plating has worn off the threads.
They need tobe firm and tight, A loose connection can corrode or arc (burn)(as I suspect was the problemthat Vic. had)
Clean and shiny, bright metal, firm contact =low resistance, electricity can flow.
Alternator....Stator(fixed coils in casing) are normally connected to diodes, so arranged that 3phases combine to give a DC output......If a diode (one way valve)goes faulty, it allows electricity to "leak back" instead of going "forward"
thus, you lose output from a phase but the alternator will still produce a small output.
to produce electricity, you need magnetism. The spinning bit of the alternator is the Rotor....it is wound with a coil of wire,the two ends of which are connected to slip-rings Carbon brushes,mounted insulated carriers, carry current from the regulator,through the coil , via the sliprings. the coil thus magnetises the rotor, which,when turning, makes the stator produce electricity.
Sometimes the regulator is built into the Alty. (usually solid state)
so you'll have a main output terminal and a smaller terminal for the warning light. An external regulator will have a "field" wireto the alty the warning lamp may go straight to the Reg. and not to the Alty...so, still 2 terminals ,but different functions for the smaller ones.....yes,it can beconfusing, you really have to study the circuit,understand how it works and then you can test and diagnose accurately.
There are a lot of "mechanics" out there who replace parts willy-nilly until they hit lucky and eliminate the fault.
Why should they give a damn? it's your wallet that's emptying and theirs that's filling! they don't feel the pain and if the customer isn't clued-up, =well, ignorance is bliss!
here endeth the lesson
CHECK TIGHTNESS OF CONNECTIONS AIUI,the specified torques for the terminals are far lower than your normal Automotive spannerman would use...the figures do not account for burred threads, burning from previous arcing or even different friction if the tin-plating has worn off the threads.
They need tobe firm and tight, A loose connection can corrode or arc (burn)(as I suspect was the problemthat Vic. had)
Clean and shiny, bright metal, firm contact =low resistance, electricity can flow.
Alternator....Stator(fixed coils in casing) are normally connected to diodes, so arranged that 3phases combine to give a DC output......If a diode (one way valve)goes faulty, it allows electricity to "leak back" instead of going "forward"
thus, you lose output from a phase but the alternator will still produce a small output.
to produce electricity, you need magnetism. The spinning bit of the alternator is the Rotor....it is wound with a coil of wire,the two ends of which are connected to slip-rings Carbon brushes,mounted insulated carriers, carry current from the regulator,through the coil , via the sliprings. the coil thus magnetises the rotor, which,when turning, makes the stator produce electricity.
Sometimes the regulator is built into the Alty. (usually solid state)
so you'll have a main output terminal and a smaller terminal for the warning light. An external regulator will have a "field" wireto the alty the warning lamp may go straight to the Reg. and not to the Alty...so, still 2 terminals ,but different functions for the smaller ones.....yes,it can beconfusing, you really have to study the circuit,understand how it works and then you can test and diagnose accurately.
There are a lot of "mechanics" out there who replace parts willy-nilly until they hit lucky and eliminate the fault.
Why should they give a damn? it's your wallet that's emptying and theirs that's filling! they don't feel the pain and if the customer isn't clued-up, =well, ignorance is bliss!
here endeth the lesson
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Phone ahead and warn your VFR airfield that you will be non radio and go for it (with good VFR weather)
I was impressed with posting after break down, not something I have ever considered although I have hitched lifts home from Calais. This is something I will consider in future especially with regard to hitching a lift home if I have to abandon ship !
I was impressed with posting after break down, not something I have ever considered although I have hitched lifts home from Calais. This is something I will consider in future especially with regard to hitching a lift home if I have to abandon ship !
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All fixed, flew to Orleans Friday, ordered a new alternator, got the train to Paris and got pissed up for the weekend, returned to Orleans at lunch time today and stuck on the new alternator with limited tools. Have just landed at Cherbourg and want to stop for the night in the south of England, any ideas of a field that has fuel for tomorrow, a budget motel nearby and outside the London TMA?
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Seven flight hours since the fix yesterday, 2 of them over water, It's running like a dream again. Man I love this flying addiction and the Maule, it's all good.
Thanks to all for the help and advice, both on the board and PM's
Thanks to all for the help and advice, both on the board and PM's
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Stone me! I thought my geography was bad
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So, If Swansea is "south of England" does that make Jockistan "northern England?"
As far as I can remember, at least 3 goodthongs have come out of Swansea..
Burly Shassey.
M4
Railway
couldn't resist. 
For "goodthongs", read "good things"
As far as I can remember, at least 3 goodthongs have come out of Swansea..
Burly Shassey.
M4
Railway
couldn't resist. For "goodthongs", read "good things"
Last edited by cockney steve; 24th Jul 2014 at 22:57. Reason: freudian slip correction
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To my disappointment, I broke down a long way from home yesterday - stuck exhaust valve in 245 TTSO O-360. Was it ever stuck! It just stuck turning final at my intended destination, which turned out to be about the best place in Canada for this kind of problem! Lucky me! One long hard day of work, and some excellent help, and loan of the proper tools, and I'm on my way again.
My first "grounded" breakdown in 38 years of flying!
My first "grounded" breakdown in 38 years of flying!
38 years and first time grounded? Wow!
Only happened to me twice since 1981, so not too bad either I suppose.
BTW, congratulations for becoming a Mod, or maybe commiserations.......
Only happened to me twice since 1981, so not too bad either I suppose.
BTW, congratulations for becoming a Mod, or maybe commiserations.......