baby on board
Neil Williams flew a CASA 2.111 into a mountain in IMC, with his wife and two other passengers (not family) on board. Not quite the same, I think?
tomboo, do what you like in a private aircraft....
But anything less than about 6 years old, if travelling in an airliner, should be secured in a soundproof, leakproof container somewhere in the cargo area....
There's nothing worse than lazy parents indulging some yowling brat for hours on end in an aircraft!
But anything less than about 6 years old, if travelling in an airliner, should be secured in a soundproof, leakproof container somewhere in the cargo area....
There's nothing worse than lazy parents indulging some yowling brat for hours on end in an aircraft!
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There's nothing worse than lazy parents indulging some yowling brat for hours on end in an aircraft!
I wouldn't take a small baby unless another adult was on board and we had good reason to be going somewhere
But anything less than about 6 years old, if travelling in an airliner, should be secured in a soundproof, leakproof container somewhere in the cargo area....
Not necessarily much fun for anyone, parents or bystanders, but part of that live-and-let-live thing.
German trains often have parent-and-child compartments which I like, but can't see as being practical on airliners.
When traveling with my dog, he gets a cage in the heated hold, he can lie down, stand up, bark if he wants to.
I get the seat next to the fat man who eats raw garlic, with the child behind me who kicks the seat back. Usually on the flight where the toilets back up. I would rather be with my dog...
Seriously though, you should give the child ear defenders, hearing damage is never a good thing.
I get the seat next to the fat man who eats raw garlic, with the child behind me who kicks the seat back. Usually on the flight where the toilets back up. I would rather be with my dog...
Seriously though, you should give the child ear defenders, hearing damage is never a good thing.
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Most of you replying on this question are MEN so very few replies from mothers. - I have 4 children, and 18 grandchildren and 3 great grandchildren.l
I have taken my grandchildren for a ride in a Cessna 152 when they were old enough, NO SOONER. And old enough is old enough to take the controls themselves, say 11 or 12 years old.
Also, how many hours of experience do you have in the air? maybe 300? how many hours of experience driving a car? I've been driving constantly since l950.
Before I took any family up, I had over 800 hours, and an IR, and had experienced all sorts of conditions.
As for younger brats, NO WAY! You men are quite simply wanting to impress the kid. Usually a ride in a small plane will make a child BORED and SICK.
What is the last time you had to clean up the puke? happens quite suddenly.
I think taking your whole family in your fancy twin on holiday is asking for a really horrible time, not even taking into consideration its a bit riskier than driving. Kid needs to use the toilet? Are we there yet? are we there yet......pressure on the PILOT, Daddy, to make bad decisions if weather is dodgy.
In the car you can stop any time, frequently, unless you are stuck on the M40. And your entertainment for the brats is often built in.
Come on blokes, grow up. And wait for the kid to grow up enough to appreciate the experience.
I have taken my grandchildren for a ride in a Cessna 152 when they were old enough, NO SOONER. And old enough is old enough to take the controls themselves, say 11 or 12 years old.
Also, how many hours of experience do you have in the air? maybe 300? how many hours of experience driving a car? I've been driving constantly since l950.
Before I took any family up, I had over 800 hours, and an IR, and had experienced all sorts of conditions.
As for younger brats, NO WAY! You men are quite simply wanting to impress the kid. Usually a ride in a small plane will make a child BORED and SICK.
What is the last time you had to clean up the puke? happens quite suddenly.
I think taking your whole family in your fancy twin on holiday is asking for a really horrible time, not even taking into consideration its a bit riskier than driving. Kid needs to use the toilet? Are we there yet? are we there yet......pressure on the PILOT, Daddy, to make bad decisions if weather is dodgy.
In the car you can stop any time, frequently, unless you are stuck on the M40. And your entertainment for the brats is often built in.
Come on blokes, grow up. And wait for the kid to grow up enough to appreciate the experience.
abgd wrote:
He might be 'fairly relaxed' about it, but what entitles you to expect 'bystanders' to excuse a toddler's 'tantrum or two' in the close confines of an airliner?
There used to be an expression "Too young to travel" - meaning that parents kept their spawn behind doors until they could be trusted to behave properly. Yet nowadays, serial brat-breeders seem to expect everyone to tolerate any antics of their offspring.
Children should be seen, but not heard!
He's fairly relaxed about it - but 40 hours door to door for the Australia trip and I think any toddler can be excused a tantrum or two.
Not necessarily much fun for anyone, parents or bystanders, but part of that live-and-let-live thing.
Not necessarily much fun for anyone, parents or bystanders, but part of that live-and-let-live thing.
There used to be an expression "Too young to travel" - meaning that parents kept their spawn behind doors until they could be trusted to behave properly. Yet nowadays, serial brat-breeders seem to expect everyone to tolerate any antics of their offspring.
Children should be seen, but not heard!
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Children should be seen but not heard, are you kidding me? Are you a parent?
I took my 2 young kids to Antigua, once or twice they cried etc but we were on it immediately to quiten them down, make them happy etc which is very different compared to my flight home from Greece (again with 2 kids 4 & 6 then) last year where 2 kids were crying, misbehaving, throwing things etc and the parents did nothing about it to the point lots of pax complained.
As for you Mary Meagher, I agree with what most of what you said, I dont take my kids in Pa28, Im a 120 hour ppl and other than a quick flight with the eldest I wouldn't chance it, but there are ways to say things, just because some of the people on this thread decide it's ok to crry their toddler at 3 months it's up to them. PS. To the question earlier about taking them in my car well yes, obviously. I've been driving since jan 97 and the amount of miles I've done would be comparable to a 10,000 pilot in hour terms, each to there own though.
I took my 2 young kids to Antigua, once or twice they cried etc but we were on it immediately to quiten them down, make them happy etc which is very different compared to my flight home from Greece (again with 2 kids 4 & 6 then) last year where 2 kids were crying, misbehaving, throwing things etc and the parents did nothing about it to the point lots of pax complained.
As for you Mary Meagher, I agree with what most of what you said, I dont take my kids in Pa28, Im a 120 hour ppl and other than a quick flight with the eldest I wouldn't chance it, but there are ways to say things, just because some of the people on this thread decide it's ok to crry their toddler at 3 months it's up to them. PS. To the question earlier about taking them in my car well yes, obviously. I've been driving since jan 97 and the amount of miles I've done would be comparable to a 10,000 pilot in hour terms, each to there own though.
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Yodi, you've been there, that's clear, and you are a thoughtful Dad.
BUT I hate to read accident reports when families are involved.
Do ANY women look at PPRuNe? not a lot. And how many of the comments on this subject and thread are women/mothers????
BUT I hate to read accident reports when families are involved.
Do ANY women look at PPRuNe? not a lot. And how many of the comments on this subject and thread are women/mothers????
He might be 'fairly relaxed' about it, but what entitles you to expect 'bystanders' to excuse a toddler's 'tantrum or two' in the close confines of an airliner?
The fact that I would (have been; will be) happy to put up with it myself in situations where I'm the 'bystander'. If crying toddlers is all you have to worry about in life, you're a lucky person.
There is behaviour that parents shouldn't put up with, obviously.
There is behaviour that parents shouldn't put up with, obviously.
Unless or until you can reasonably control your rugrat, keep it at home!
Some years ago a doting parent left offspring unattended in the local flying club. When I next visited, I discovered that every wall had been scrawled upon with chalk / pencil marks caused by the little $od. But as I was in charge, I wrote in the newsletter that, henceforth, any irritating unattended kids would be shackled to the radio tower outside until their keepers returned. On the first occasion, to the base of the tower and on any subsequent occasion, at the top.....
But I wouldn't disagree with you on that. You can pretty much stop a small child from drawing on the walls by staying with it all the time to supervise it. There's no excuse not to.
You can keep a small child quiet 90% of the time by reading, feeding, talking through all the pictures on the camera and so on... but if they decide they want to scream and yell there's not much you can do... They don't allow Laudanum on international flights.
My then 18 month old son and his Australian grandparents were lucky enough to meet at a point when he was just old enough to enjoy the experience and his grandfather was fit enough to go to the beach with him and on trips to the national park to see 'guroos'. Next time he goes, I fear his grandfather won't be able to make it out of the house. His granny's not getting younger either. I think it would have been wrong to deprive any of them of the experience.
You can keep a small child quiet 90% of the time by reading, feeding, talking through all the pictures on the camera and so on... but if they decide they want to scream and yell there's not much you can do... They don't allow Laudanum on international flights.
My then 18 month old son and his Australian grandparents were lucky enough to meet at a point when he was just old enough to enjoy the experience and his grandfather was fit enough to go to the beach with him and on trips to the national park to see 'guroos'. Next time he goes, I fear his grandfather won't be able to make it out of the house. His granny's not getting younger either. I think it would have been wrong to deprive any of them of the experience.
Here's WestJet's solution to the problem:
Mary Meagher:
TT 8000hrs
[QUOTE]Come on blokes, grow up. And wait for the kid to grow up enough to appreciate the experience./QUOTE]
Please re-read my previous post about my first flight experience as a CHILD (6yrs old) with my grandfather, inspiring and perhaps one of the most happy memories of my childhood with my grandfather. IF I can even come close to recreating such memories with my children then tiny risk is worth it.
[QUOTE]Do ANY women look at PPRuNe? not a lot. And how many of the comments on this subject and thread are women/mothers????/QUOTE]
Why should that have anything to do with it? Are men somehow less capable of assessing risk for there own children or are somehow less nurturing?
Also, how many hours of experience do you have in the air? maybe 300? how many hours of experience driving a car? I've been driving constantly since l950.
[QUOTE]Come on blokes, grow up. And wait for the kid to grow up enough to appreciate the experience./QUOTE]
Please re-read my previous post about my first flight experience as a CHILD (6yrs old) with my grandfather, inspiring and perhaps one of the most happy memories of my childhood with my grandfather. IF I can even come close to recreating such memories with my children then tiny risk is worth it.
[QUOTE]Do ANY women look at PPRuNe? not a lot. And how many of the comments on this subject and thread are women/mothers????/QUOTE]
Why should that have anything to do with it? Are men somehow less capable of assessing risk for there own children or are somehow less nurturing?
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My father flew me as a baby in a Cherokee. I don't remember it at all, but I've been obsessed with flying since the age of 5. He did the same with my sister and she screamed so loudly he elected not to take off.
I now have a baby son, and due to aviation induced mild hearing damage to my ears, I won't be flying him until he's six or seven. The last thing I would want for him is a lifetime of tinitus, so I'll metering his exposure carefully.
I'd also like to say I think Mary is dead right, and the way to take that Baron full of kids&wife on holiday is with a safety pilot doing most of it for you. It may not be the independence you dreamed of, but at least you'll live long enough remember the whole of the trip.
I now have a baby son, and due to aviation induced mild hearing damage to my ears, I won't be flying him until he's six or seven. The last thing I would want for him is a lifetime of tinitus, so I'll metering his exposure carefully.
I'd also like to say I think Mary is dead right, and the way to take that Baron full of kids&wife on holiday is with a safety pilot doing most of it for you. It may not be the independence you dreamed of, but at least you'll live long enough remember the whole of the trip.
