General questions about unusual attitude/upset recovery
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Before diverting attention away from the sound advice
The reduction of AoA is paramount, followed by almost instant, simultaneous, controlled actions, for the given situation. I was conscious that you mentioned that your points 3, and 4, were almost simultaneous. Going back to the OP, he appears to have been given confusing advice, and when he queried it, was told, I don't really know?
The subsequent points in this thread, confirms that a lot of instructional teaching, is at odds. That would appear to now be the discussion.
Oh, I am also an experienced, aerobatic, tail wheel pilot. But fly other stuff too..
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This question was not about one particular instructor as the same question was asked in ground school with a different instructor who advised that the designated examiner during the checkride will be looking for power first then lowering the nose
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Back to basics, boys and girls!
Start with no engine, keeping it simple. How do you stall a glider? pull the stick back. How do you unstall a glider? ease the stick forward.
Then they add engines that pull or push, and complicate your life....but basically the above still works. You don't have to shove it! usually just ease the stick forward to correct the angle of attack. In fact, if the aircraft is properly trimmed, just LET GO OF EVERYTHING and the recovery should follow.
That one is fun to try, but it is useful to keep wings level.
Had a student in a K-13 who got a bit over excited in stall recovery, and moved the stick forward with such force I rose up in my seat and had a bit of a stretch to reach it...I HAVE CONTROL! Just let go, dear. (view from canopy all green, no blue at all....)
Then they add engines that pull or push, and complicate your life....but basically the above still works. You don't have to shove it! usually just ease the stick forward to correct the angle of attack. In fact, if the aircraft is properly trimmed, just LET GO OF EVERYTHING and the recovery should follow.
That one is fun to try, but it is useful to keep wings level.
Had a student in a K-13 who got a bit over excited in stall recovery, and moved the stick forward with such force I rose up in my seat and had a bit of a stretch to reach it...I HAVE CONTROL! Just let go, dear. (view from canopy all green, no blue at all....)
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Never flown one but... I assume in an ac with high thrust line (e.g. Flying boats of various types) power first would be indicated, as this will lower the nose in any case?
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Never flown one but... I assume in an ac with high thrust line (e.g. Flying boats of various types) power first would be indicated, as this will lower the nose in any case?
Applying power when the wing is stalled will induce roll and yaw.
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Maxred,
Just noticed you were quoting Heston about citing SOP's. Still unwarranted criticism.
It is true there appears to be some confusion where the OP and yourself are confusing stall recovery with 'nose high unusual attitude' recovery. Shame the OP's instructor didn't know the difference.
One requires reducing AoA immediately. The other involves reducing the further increase on AoA.
Just noticed you were quoting Heston about citing SOP's. Still unwarranted criticism.
It is true there appears to be some confusion where the OP and yourself are confusing stall recovery with 'nose high unusual attitude' recovery. Shame the OP's instructor didn't know the difference.
One requires reducing AoA immediately. The other involves reducing the further increase on AoA.
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Yeah but that's the point. The training for SEP is to use the standard stall recovery technique for nose-high unusual attitudes - because you don't have to work out what situation you are in - you just do the safe thing. Always reduce AoA first.
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to be honest both just require you to put the nose back on the straight and level attitude with a cruise rpm set and the plane will sort itself out.
It can be argued that a stall is an unusually attitude.
To be honest I have been in more flight upsets than stalls outside training. Usually because of 757's or Sea king helicopters.
It can be argued that a stall is an unusually attitude.
To be honest I have been in more flight upsets than stalls outside training. Usually because of 757's or Sea king helicopters.
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Heston,
Then Chuck is exactly right about a systematic problem in the training industry being worse than we thought. When absolutes are introduced instead of understanding.
That 'safe thing' will allow the aircraft to stall/spin with a sufficiently nose high unusual attitude without the introduction of bank.
Then Chuck is exactly right about a systematic problem in the training industry being worse than we thought. When absolutes are introduced instead of understanding.
That 'safe thing' will allow the aircraft to stall/spin with a sufficiently nose high unusual attitude without the introduction of bank.
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Applying power when the wing is stalled will induce roll and yaw.
When the wing is flying, aerodynamics are in control (generally!). When the wing is stalled, dynamics are in control (generally!).
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Just so we're taking apples to apples here, some views on definitions would be helpful, let me see if I have this right
Unusual Attitude
As it relates to IFR flight, an unintential attitud,if above the horizon up to but prior to a stall, if below the horizon a spiral dive or spin but not inverted.
Upset
Inverted
And each condition I.e stall, unusual attitude, Upset depending on where you are on the chain of events with possibly one condition leading to the other if unchecked requires the different input sequences for recovery,
Which gets back to my original questions where along the training process do pilots get upset (inverted) recovery training?
Unusual Attitude
As it relates to IFR flight, an unintential attitud,if above the horizon up to but prior to a stall, if below the horizon a spiral dive or spin but not inverted.
Upset
Inverted
And each condition I.e stall, unusual attitude, Upset depending on where you are on the chain of events with possibly one condition leading to the other if unchecked requires the different input sequences for recovery,
Which gets back to my original questions where along the training process do pilots get upset (inverted) recovery training?
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in general if your VMC you will spot it before it happens and correct.
In IMC if your scan goes then you can suddenly realise your in it of you get thrown on your back by natural causes.
So for me anyway upset was only really taught in my IR rating.
In IMC if your scan goes then you can suddenly realise your in it of you get thrown on your back by natural causes.
So for me anyway upset was only really taught in my IR rating.
