Conversion from PA28 to Cessna 152
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Full power first, check that the aircraft is pointing in a sane direction and is still flying second, then flaps (to 20 in my case) as the third action. So for a second or three I am going around at full power - there's no way I'm going to faff around with the flaps before I've got the power on.
Instructor didn't complain when I did exactly that on a currency check ride the other day.
Instructor didn't complain when I did exactly that on a currency check ride the other day.
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As with Desert above I was lucky in being involved with a Bournemouth company and it was very much the case of can you take that! Never flown one was met with you will be fine
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Yes agreed but these were all singles apart from an awful Seneca 1 and an absolute must is to read the POH as well as cold touching every knob and switch if you are to take an aircraft you do not know
Pace
Pace
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I was just thinking about the way I first flew the different SEP types I have flown.
C150/C152 PPL in it.
PA28-180 - 2 of us went to FSO with an instructor to pick up our FAA tickets and did our bi-annual on the way there and on the way back.
PA28 slab wing trimmer on the roof. Got in and flew it.
C172- check out next time I went back to the US for hour building 45mins.
robin- got in and flew it
Katana- 1 hour in the circuit with a bloke on his FIC for his mutual. With instructions to screw with his head which I did.
Garda Horizon- maint trip with owner when the wx was pants.
PA38- 3 circuits then sent on my way for a ferry to swap aircraft for a star annual. Did some stalls and a spin or two over the vale of York on my way.
Arrow- got in and flew it.
And there were another three or 4 permit types which was just a chat with the owner before flying them somewhere.
So as such I have never done a formal differences training on any SEP type. And never scared myself either on any of them.
Never flown a MEP as PIC.
C150/C152 PPL in it.
PA28-180 - 2 of us went to FSO with an instructor to pick up our FAA tickets and did our bi-annual on the way there and on the way back.
PA28 slab wing trimmer on the roof. Got in and flew it.
C172- check out next time I went back to the US for hour building 45mins.
robin- got in and flew it
Katana- 1 hour in the circuit with a bloke on his FIC for his mutual. With instructions to screw with his head which I did.
Garda Horizon- maint trip with owner when the wx was pants.
PA38- 3 circuits then sent on my way for a ferry to swap aircraft for a star annual. Did some stalls and a spin or two over the vale of York on my way.
Arrow- got in and flew it.
And there were another three or 4 permit types which was just a chat with the owner before flying them somewhere.
So as such I have never done a formal differences training on any SEP type. And never scared myself either on any of them.
Never flown a MEP as PIC.
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C150/C152 PPL in it.
PA28-180 - 2 of us went to FSO with an instructor to pick up our FAA tickets and did our bi-annual on the way there and on the way back.
PA28 slab wing trimmer on the roof. Got in and flew it.
C172- check out next time I went back to the US for hour building 45mins.
robin- got in and flew it
Katana- 1 hour in the circuit with a bloke on his FIC for his mutual. With instructions to screw with his head which I did.
Garda Horizon- maint trip with owner when the wx was pants.
PA38- 3 circuits then sent on my way for a ferry to swap aircraft for a star annual. Did some stalls and a spin or two over the vale of York on my way.
Arrow- got in and flew it.
PA28-180 - 2 of us went to FSO with an instructor to pick up our FAA tickets and did our bi-annual on the way there and on the way back.
PA28 slab wing trimmer on the roof. Got in and flew it.
C172- check out next time I went back to the US for hour building 45mins.
robin- got in and flew it
Katana- 1 hour in the circuit with a bloke on his FIC for his mutual. With instructions to screw with his head which I did.
Garda Horizon- maint trip with owner when the wx was pants.
PA38- 3 circuits then sent on my way for a ferry to swap aircraft for a star annual. Did some stalls and a spin or two over the vale of York on my way.
Arrow- got in and flew it.
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We just have SEP class.
And you only need currency for carrying pax in the class students count as flight crew. Nothing stopping you not flying any thing in the class for 12 months then jumping in solo and flying off.
Done it myself in the C172 not flown one for 3 years and 9 months since I last flew a SEP. Day job is flying a twin TP. Then went flying with I might add full permission of the insurance company for a maint ferry.
And you only need currency for carrying pax in the class students count as flight crew. Nothing stopping you not flying any thing in the class for 12 months then jumping in solo and flying off.
Done it myself in the C172 not flown one for 3 years and 9 months since I last flew a SEP. Day job is flying a twin TP. Then went flying with I might add full permission of the insurance company for a maint ferry.
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500ft
It strikes me that you are over regulated by people who have no idea that one SEP is much like another.
I blame the blood sucking leaches that are draining society white (some call them Lawyers) who are making improper use of the law and forcing airworthiness authorities to legislate far beyond what common sense dictates.
If trained to a reasonable standard any PPL holder should having spent time reading the POH be able to get to grips with most SEP's albeit that some powerful aerobatic types are going to require a little more work.
However simple airmanship should tell a PPL holder with 50 hours in a C152 that he will need a fair deal of instruction to fly an Extra 300 NOT a bunch of restrictive regulations.
I see no aircraft in Mad Jocks list that require any more than a good look at the POH and a quick circuit with an instructor to get a competent PPL up to speed to fly.
I blame the blood sucking leaches that are draining society white (some call them Lawyers) who are making improper use of the law and forcing airworthiness authorities to legislate far beyond what common sense dictates.
If trained to a reasonable standard any PPL holder should having spent time reading the POH be able to get to grips with most SEP's albeit that some powerful aerobatic types are going to require a little more work.
However simple airmanship should tell a PPL holder with 50 hours in a C152 that he will need a fair deal of instruction to fly an Extra 300 NOT a bunch of restrictive regulations.
I see no aircraft in Mad Jocks list that require any more than a good look at the POH and a quick circuit with an instructor to get a competent PPL up to speed to fly.
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I see no aircraft in Mad Jocks list that require any more than a good look at the POH and a quick circuit with an instructor to get a competent PPL up to speed to fly.
Anyway, what is the rush to do it in minimum hours?
I do think there are some ridiculous requirements though - I believe Goodwood require 5 hours to convert to their glass screen Cessnas, and flew a Harvard many moons ago that the insurance company wanted over 50 hours on aircraft over 250HP - but no requirement for tailwheel time (before the days of tailwheel endorsement)!
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Obviously if you turn up at a flying club unknown they will want a checkout as they will want to see how competent a pilot you are who has walked through their door.
But simple aircraft to simple aircraft one circuit and a bit of time on the POH is all that should be required.
I was looking at buying some Cirrus hours until I was informed there was a required 10 hrs checkout regardless of experience levels at a cost of over £2000 Crazy! Insurance requirement or operator manipulated insurance requirement?
What is so unique about the Cirrus as an aeroplane NOTHING! if its the displays should you be learning those while in the air at £200 plus per hour? or with the aircraft hooked up on the ground so you can concentrate totally or even better like Garmin did with the 550 A pretty good simulation for a home computer?
Sorry but it all stinks of making money out of the punter
Pace
But simple aircraft to simple aircraft one circuit and a bit of time on the POH is all that should be required.
I was looking at buying some Cirrus hours until I was informed there was a required 10 hrs checkout regardless of experience levels at a cost of over £2000 Crazy! Insurance requirement or operator manipulated insurance requirement?
What is so unique about the Cirrus as an aeroplane NOTHING! if its the displays should you be learning those while in the air at £200 plus per hour? or with the aircraft hooked up on the ground so you can concentrate totally or even better like Garmin did with the 550 A pretty good simulation for a home computer?
Sorry but it all stinks of making money out of the punter
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 23rd Feb 2014 at 13:01.
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I don't know the school I worked at had a standard 3 circuit checkout.
I did ask the boss if we shouldn't be doing more and he just said no it just annoys the punters.
And to be fair during the summer we had 4 aircraft in the air for 7 plus hours a day. And in the year I was there we didn't have any incidents.
But then again we got a lot of unrequired requests for instructor flights. Maybe the fact that the punters didn't feel they were getting shafted for check flights and skills tests every time they came in made them less bitter and twisted about going up with an instructor.
I did ask the boss if we shouldn't be doing more and he just said no it just annoys the punters.
And to be fair during the summer we had 4 aircraft in the air for 7 plus hours a day. And in the year I was there we didn't have any incidents.
But then again we got a lot of unrequired requests for instructor flights. Maybe the fact that the punters didn't feel they were getting shafted for check flights and skills tests every time they came in made them less bitter and twisted about going up with an instructor.
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Back to the question in hand.
The PA28 will feel bigger, heavier and more solid in flight. Its also heavier to pull out the hangar! It doesn't suffer the nose wheel shimmy of the 152 when on the ground. The white arc extends further allowing higher speed flap settings, which can be very useful, particularly on the Archer. The fuel pump and tank change need memorising. You can not check the effects of the trimmer and rudder on the ground from inside as you can not see out the back. Sometimes, the door is a pain to latch and needs a jolt top and bottom to make sure it is shut properly.
There is far more room and space for all manner of things including your legs if you are tall. Hence, it feels more refined.
An hour of general handling stalls etc, followed by some circuits will do you to get the feel, speeds and settings sorted. You'll probably find that you'll never set foot in a 152 again if you're post PPL training.
The PA28 will feel bigger, heavier and more solid in flight. Its also heavier to pull out the hangar! It doesn't suffer the nose wheel shimmy of the 152 when on the ground. The white arc extends further allowing higher speed flap settings, which can be very useful, particularly on the Archer. The fuel pump and tank change need memorising. You can not check the effects of the trimmer and rudder on the ground from inside as you can not see out the back. Sometimes, the door is a pain to latch and needs a jolt top and bottom to make sure it is shut properly.
There is far more room and space for all manner of things including your legs if you are tall. Hence, it feels more refined.
An hour of general handling stalls etc, followed by some circuits will do you to get the feel, speeds and settings sorted. You'll probably find that you'll never set foot in a 152 again if you're post PPL training.
Local Variation - I am sure you are right about the differences but it's actually the other way round. The OP (who seems to have quite understandably vanished) is converting from the Pa 28.
IMO the Cessna is a pretty decent aircraft. Easy to fly acceptably well, but takes more work to make it sing.
IMO the Cessna is a pretty decent aircraft. Easy to fly acceptably well, but takes more work to make it sing.
I agree with local Variation. His comments are a pretty good summary.
As for how long it takes to check out well I have a few comments on that.
1) It is not your airplane that you are flying in, it belongs to someone else. As the owners they are entitled to demand what ever they want as a checkout. Don't like it, go else where or buy your own aircraft
2) My experience with doing checkouts is that the time required varies all over the map. However most PPL's showed significant weaknesses in basic flying skills. A bit, to a lot, of extra time was required to address those skill deficits, in addition to showing the handling differences.
3) The people that complain the most about the length of the checkout were usually the worst pilots.
If I where doing the checkout with the OP then it would consist of about an hour on the ground doing a complete review of the POH with some W & B calculations, a few performance calculations and then a complete walk around with an emphasis on what in particular is prone to leaking/breaking/coming loose. We then sit in the cockpit and go over the normal and emergency checklist to get the pilot familiar with the cockpit and build some muscle memory.
The flight will review, steep turns, slow flight, departure and arrival stall scenarios, an in flight emergency that will develop into a PFL, and enough circuits to show take off and landing proficiency.
Total air time will be about an hour if there is good solid basic flying skills. If skills are not there then however long it takes. The current record was a guy who needed 10 hrs of additional dual before he was safe to take the airplane.
As for how long it takes to check out well I have a few comments on that.
1) It is not your airplane that you are flying in, it belongs to someone else. As the owners they are entitled to demand what ever they want as a checkout. Don't like it, go else where or buy your own aircraft
2) My experience with doing checkouts is that the time required varies all over the map. However most PPL's showed significant weaknesses in basic flying skills. A bit, to a lot, of extra time was required to address those skill deficits, in addition to showing the handling differences.
3) The people that complain the most about the length of the checkout were usually the worst pilots.
If I where doing the checkout with the OP then it would consist of about an hour on the ground doing a complete review of the POH with some W & B calculations, a few performance calculations and then a complete walk around with an emphasis on what in particular is prone to leaking/breaking/coming loose. We then sit in the cockpit and go over the normal and emergency checklist to get the pilot familiar with the cockpit and build some muscle memory.
The flight will review, steep turns, slow flight, departure and arrival stall scenarios, an in flight emergency that will develop into a PFL, and enough circuits to show take off and landing proficiency.
Total air time will be about an hour if there is good solid basic flying skills. If skills are not there then however long it takes. The current record was a guy who needed 10 hrs of additional dual before he was safe to take the airplane.