Aeros Nottingham prices going up.
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Depending on where you live derby or Leicester are your other options - don't go for the one at east midlands, you'll just burn the hobbs meter up waiting for 737s and get about 20 mins instruction
That said, the advice to stay put if you are getting on well, is good advice. Tollerton is as good a place as any to learn and the instructors I know there are a good bunch.
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Well that number was meant to say I am not really up to speed on the PPL training market schools and costs apart from the couple of schools I am still in touch with way way up north.
And there are a lot of us that were immensely happy when OBA got its approval pulled.
There are still quite a few EASA approved schools left. And its always an option if your local wx is causing issues with the NAV side of things.
I would also say that having a look at Inverness is worth it as well. I never really had to much problems when I taught up there with getting Nav ex's done due to the local microclimate in the Moray Firth
And there are a lot of us that were immensely happy when OBA got its approval pulled.
There are still quite a few EASA approved schools left. And its always an option if your local wx is causing issues with the NAV side of things.
I would also say that having a look at Inverness is worth it as well. I never really had to much problems when I taught up there with getting Nav ex's done due to the local microclimate in the Moray Firth
My experience after 28 years of full and part time instruction is the bare hourly cost of the aircraft had the least impact on the total cost of getting the license.
IMO The main cost drivers in descending order of importance are as follows.
1) How good your instructor is
2) How hard you work
3) How busy the airport is (ie average delay waiting for takeoff) and how far away the practice area is
4) The hourly rate of the aircraft
Getting instruction from a keen and efficient instructor and showing up for every lesson really well prepared could easily wipe out a 20/30 pound an hour cost differential.......
IMO The main cost drivers in descending order of importance are as follows.
1) How good your instructor is
2) How hard you work
3) How busy the airport is (ie average delay waiting for takeoff) and how far away the practice area is
4) The hourly rate of the aircraft
Getting instruction from a keen and efficient instructor and showing up for every lesson really well prepared could easily wipe out a 20/30 pound an hour cost differential.......
Surely what matters more than anything else is the quality of instruction.
Do the instructors have the time and inclination to do a proper pre flight brief? Likewise a post flight brief?
Do they decline to take you flying if the weather is not suitable for a meaningful instructional sortie?
Ask yourself these questions before getting too worked up about what you are paying - really there are no short cuts to training a proficient and safe pilot.
Do the instructors have the time and inclination to do a proper pre flight brief? Likewise a post flight brief?
Do they decline to take you flying if the weather is not suitable for a meaningful instructional sortie?
Ask yourself these questions before getting too worked up about what you are paying - really there are no short cuts to training a proficient and safe pilot.
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im no expert but to my knowledge the standard stall recovery is lower the nose, level the wings and add full power
why would an instructor tell you not to lower the nose in the event of a stall?
why would an instructor tell you not to lower the nose in the event of a stall?
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Let's bite...
We (should) know that the correct and only way to recover from a stall is to reduce the angle of attack to below the critical / stalling angle of attack.
In all examples trained for in the PPL syllabus the physical action to accomplish this is lowering the nose. The devil's advocate card that I suspect Firefly is going to play is that this would not be the correct recovery action when inverted - in fact, quite the opposite.
However, a degree of common sense and practicality has to be applied. A good thorough stalling brief should be covered for every student and cover in understandable and practical depth the theory behind stalling. A quick SSR brief on the board and then blasting off is not acceptable in my opinion.
Combining the most common situations where an average PPL might need to recover from a stall with the ability of your average PPL there is a good percentage chance that lowering the nose (reducing the angle of attack) will solve the situation. We can argue all day as to whether it is good teaching practice to say 'lower the nose' or 'reduce the angle of attack' (the latter obviously being technically correct.) but a lot of students do struggle with anything over and above clear, concise and simple instructions.
I do, however, believe that spins should be taught in the PPL syllabus, even if only for awareness, and an understanding of the recovery actions imparted. Firefly, out of curiosity, what recovery actions would you teach for a wing drop in a stall?
If we really want to bite we can talk about going inverted or even the recovery actions in some underslung jet aircraft which might involve closing the thrust levers and applying bank to generate a recovery - although it's not directly relevant to Bloggs in their 152.
As instructors we have a duty to transfer working knowledge and and skills to students that they can use in their flying and prevent them from making errors. We do need to be careful how we do this and sometimes being too clever can have an undesired outcome.
We (should) know that the correct and only way to recover from a stall is to reduce the angle of attack to below the critical / stalling angle of attack.
In all examples trained for in the PPL syllabus the physical action to accomplish this is lowering the nose. The devil's advocate card that I suspect Firefly is going to play is that this would not be the correct recovery action when inverted - in fact, quite the opposite.
However, a degree of common sense and practicality has to be applied. A good thorough stalling brief should be covered for every student and cover in understandable and practical depth the theory behind stalling. A quick SSR brief on the board and then blasting off is not acceptable in my opinion.
Combining the most common situations where an average PPL might need to recover from a stall with the ability of your average PPL there is a good percentage chance that lowering the nose (reducing the angle of attack) will solve the situation. We can argue all day as to whether it is good teaching practice to say 'lower the nose' or 'reduce the angle of attack' (the latter obviously being technically correct.) but a lot of students do struggle with anything over and above clear, concise and simple instructions.
I do, however, believe that spins should be taught in the PPL syllabus, even if only for awareness, and an understanding of the recovery actions imparted. Firefly, out of curiosity, what recovery actions would you teach for a wing drop in a stall?
If we really want to bite we can talk about going inverted or even the recovery actions in some underslung jet aircraft which might involve closing the thrust levers and applying bank to generate a recovery - although it's not directly relevant to Bloggs in their 152.
As instructors we have a duty to transfer working knowledge and and skills to students that they can use in their flying and prevent them from making errors. We do need to be careful how we do this and sometimes being too clever can have an undesired outcome.
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The problem is that if you go for the lower the nose you have missed the vital bit of application of knowledge.
The fact is a large number of pilots including Instructors think and operate in the assumption that the stall speed is one number and it is the speed that matters and nothing else.
The lower then nose from the instructor is a fairly good indicator that they are a chase the needles type of pilot who won't teach you properly how to attitude fly.
The fact is a large number of pilots including Instructors think and operate in the assumption that the stall speed is one number and it is the speed that matters and nothing else.
The lower then nose from the instructor is a fairly good indicator that they are a chase the needles type of pilot who won't teach you properly how to attitude fly.
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'missed the vital bit of application of knowledge'?!!? in that case why is it that in the EFATO section of my check list does it say 'maintain airspeed above stall speed'?
presumably the people who wrote my checklist were all 'needle-chasers' as well are they? lowering the nose unstalls the wing/s and also adds some knots without necessarily losing much height in my experience.
why are people saying that the SSR is wrong? and more importantly implying our instructors don't know what theyre doing?
presumably the people who wrote my checklist were all 'needle-chasers' as well are they? lowering the nose unstalls the wing/s and also adds some knots without necessarily losing much height in my experience.
why are people saying that the SSR is wrong? and more importantly implying our instructors don't know what theyre doing?
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'missed the vital bit of application of knowledge'?!!? in that case why is it that in the EFATO section of my check list does it say 'maintain airspeed above stall speed'?
presumably the people who wrote my checklist were all 'needle-chasers' as well are they? lowering the nose unstalls the wing/s and also adds some knots without necessarily losing much height in my experience.
why are people saying that the SSR is wrong? and more importantly implying our instructors don't know what theyre doing?
presumably the people who wrote my checklist were all 'needle-chasers' as well are they? lowering the nose unstalls the wing/s and also adds some knots without necessarily losing much height in my experience.
why are people saying that the SSR is wrong? and more importantly implying our instructors don't know what theyre doing?
I don't think that anyone is saying that the SSR is wrong, simply that in the early stages of training it is important to emphasise how you recover from a stall. You need to lower the angle of attack of the wing, nothing else matters. In many cases lowering the nose is the action that gives this result, but it is still important for a student to understand how they are recovering from the stall.
There was a load of training bulletins doing the rounds years ago, as a lot of test candidates (particularly on IR) were simply holding an attitude and powering out of an incipient stall situation, without any lowering of the angle of attack. These candidates were poorly taught at the PPL stage.
Lastly, many instructors don't know what they're doing. Many are afraid of stalls themselves, particularly in the PA38 due to all the ridiculous horror stories, so will not give a student a decent chance to experience slow flight and understand it's dangers, and how to effectively recover with minimum height loss.
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Lowering the nose does not prevent you from stalling though.
The aircraft wings must be maneuvered into a position (proper angle of attack) to act as a downward deflector of air and generate lift. If that's not the case, the aircraft will fall out the sky and that's what you want to prevent in the first place.
I understand that many factors manifest in such a flight envelope, but the key is the relation of the wings with the air in terms of lift generation.
WP
The aircraft wings must be maneuvered into a position (proper angle of attack) to act as a downward deflector of air and generate lift. If that's not the case, the aircraft will fall out the sky and that's what you want to prevent in the first place.
I understand that many factors manifest in such a flight envelope, but the key is the relation of the wings with the air in terms of lift generation.
WP
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Great advice from some of you. The next time I hear the stall warner I will hit 'pause' and log on to PPrune to check through what everyone suggests.
The next time I'm flying a real aeroplane I'll just lower the nose........
Meanwhile, going back to the original question; the latest price that you have been quoted is competitive with some of the schools that I know in the south. I'd stay with it if I were you rather than going through a new experience.
Good luck!
The next time I'm flying a real aeroplane I'll just lower the nose........
Meanwhile, going back to the original question; the latest price that you have been quoted is competitive with some of the schools that I know in the south. I'd stay with it if I were you rather than going through a new experience.
Good luck!
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Cenus,
15 hours into flight training, you should be soloing by now.
Make sure you are getting there though. Flying is very difficult to learn and you need to understand what you are dealing with.
Getting a pilot licence is one thing, but maintaining the right proficiency level is another thing. The accident records (at least in GA environment) proves this.
I know a number of pilots who have attained a pilot licence and are only focused on going through a flight review to stay current. That's a risky undertaking and a waste of resources.
You can only reduce your risk profile by flying experience, and that is very costly.
WP
15 hours into flight training, you should be soloing by now.
Make sure you are getting there though. Flying is very difficult to learn and you need to understand what you are dealing with.
Getting a pilot licence is one thing, but maintaining the right proficiency level is another thing. The accident records (at least in GA environment) proves this.
I know a number of pilots who have attained a pilot licence and are only focused on going through a flight review to stay current. That's a risky undertaking and a waste of resources.
You can only reduce your risk profile by flying experience, and that is very costly.
WP
I also do the occasional PPL. My students are not a "chase the needles type of pilot" for the simple reason that for a good part of the pre solo flying the airspeed indicator will be covered up with a post it note.
I spend a lot of time on the recognition of slow flight and impending stalls and effective recovery regardless of what the airplane is doing. Central to that is teaching them to lower the nose, apply full power and control yaw.
And yes I tell them to "lower the nose" because that is should be the first automatic and instinctive reaction to the airplane entering a stall.
Sorry for the thread drift but the suggestion that somebody should "run for the hills" because an instructor says "lower the nose" instead of "reduce the AOA" is just plain silly.
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Returning to the subject !
One of the reasons for the price increase is the rise in the price of parts with the likes of Cessna charging £ 900 for six small pressed metal rudder fittings and the fall in quality of engine parts to the point at which engines now make only 50% of TBO.
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"15 hours into flight training, you should be soloing by now"
Never listen to this type of comment. I work at an Aero Club and I can assure you that people go solo at different stages, BUT, only when they are ready. This comment is very unhelpful.
Never listen to this type of comment. I work at an Aero Club and I can assure you that people go solo at different stages, BUT, only when they are ready. This comment is very unhelpful.
