Hand held Radio
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I don't believe there are any currently marketed handheld radios that are certified in Europe for airborne use.
Most likely they do not have sufficient broadcast band filtering: VHF aviation band is directly adjacent to band 2 FM broadcast band and needs expensive, often hand-tuned filters, to work effectively.
Older second-hand units may not have 8.33kHz channels.
Edit: not sure what the deal is with other jurisdictions regarding use in the cockpit of h/h, just saw the OP is based in Canada.
Cheers, Howard
Most likely they do not have sufficient broadcast band filtering: VHF aviation band is directly adjacent to band 2 FM broadcast band and needs expensive, often hand-tuned filters, to work effectively.
Older second-hand units may not have 8.33kHz channels.
Edit: not sure what the deal is with other jurisdictions regarding use in the cockpit of h/h, just saw the OP is based in Canada.
Cheers, Howard
Last edited by Howard Long; 10th Jul 2013 at 19:10.
Good idea but don't forget that all the new Icom handhelds are illegal to use in Europe.
Eventually the upgraded 8.33KHz capable versions of the A6E & A24E have been approved for use as hand-held radios in EASAland, although not installed (as EASA certification regulation doesn't permit that). Yet another example of EASA working for our safety - you know it makes sense. So now if you want to carry a handheld for emergency use, they are perfectly legal (so long as you hold an FRTOL) .
Meanwhile, the Yaesu TA310 8.33KHz handheld does all the same things, is more rugged and significantly cheaper. It also seems to work well with all headsets, and the battery life is better. It's what I use, but please yourself.
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Is this specifically written somewhere for these devices, or are you simply saying that there is now no need for certification for comms equipment that does not require installation? I'm trying to understand how you've reached your conclusion.
As far as Icom are concerned, their current transceivers are still not certified for airborne use according to their website.
In practice it is doubtful as to whether this would preclude use as a backup device: are you really going to resist using it when you've ditched hoping for SAR?
Cheers, Howard
As far as Icom are concerned, their current transceivers are still not certified for airborne use according to their website.
In practice it is doubtful as to whether this would preclude use as a backup device: are you really going to resist using it when you've ditched hoping for SAR?
Cheers, Howard
We're all taught (or should be) to Aviate Navigate Communicate.
I prioritise my purchases of flying kit in the same order.
I've suffered radio failure once in 700-odd hours, and simply followed the published radio-fail procedure to rejoin and land at at an International airport within a class D CTR.
I prioritise my purchases of flying kit in the same order.
I've suffered radio failure once in 700-odd hours, and simply followed the published radio-fail procedure to rejoin and land at at an International airport within a class D CTR.
Last edited by Mariner9; 22nd Jul 2013 at 15:34.
We're all taught (or should be) to Aviate Navigate Communicate.
I prioritise my purchases of flying kit in the same order.
I've suffered radio failure once in 700-odd hours, and simply followed the published radio-fail procedure to rejoin and land at at an International airport within a class D CTR.
I prioritise my purchases of flying kit in the same order.
I've suffered radio failure once in 700-odd hours, and simply followed the published radio-fail procedure to rejoin and land at at an International airport within a class D CTR.
If any distance from your base, following radio-fail procedure can work out expensive - by the time the radio is fixed.
I prioritise my purchases too - the only specifically flying kit I own, apart from the handheld and adaptor, are a headset and a cheap ex USAF kneeboard.
P.S. And a conspicuity vest. And an airside badge.
I'm confused about these handhelds. I'm shortly about to get my Druine Turbulent flying, and taking it to the continent is amongst my plans. It has two magnetos but no other electrical system at present.
As far as I can gather the manufacturers still need to submit documentation to the CAA to show that they conform to the standard, and it's still not permissible to wire them up to an external antenna?
There is no mention of the Icom A6/A24 radios on the CAA list of approved equipment, though I understand from the Trainsair website that they are approved.
From what I've heard, the Yaesu radios may be somewhat better, but I haven't seen any statement about whether or not they are approved.
None of them are approved outside of the UK. So what do French microlighters use? (as an example). The links I've found to the EASA approval page are all broken.
As far as I can gather the manufacturers still need to submit documentation to the CAA to show that they conform to the standard, and it's still not permissible to wire them up to an external antenna?
There is no mention of the Icom A6/A24 radios on the CAA list of approved equipment, though I understand from the Trainsair website that they are approved.
From what I've heard, the Yaesu radios may be somewhat better, but I haven't seen any statement about whether or not they are approved.
None of them are approved outside of the UK. So what do French microlighters use? (as an example). The links I've found to the EASA approval page are all broken.
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The 8.33kHz spacing ICOM A6/A24 are approved under http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/220/201311...ertificate.pdf
The only French approved handhelds are these, not to be confused with the same model sold here, because they come with an external FM filter, which cannot be bought separately. Note the considerably higher price.
http://www.icom-france.com/files/doc...A24FRII-fr.pdf
ICOM IC A6FR II VHF aviation homologuée pour utilisation à bord - 5001029 - Radio
The only French approved handhelds are these, not to be confused with the same model sold here, because they come with an external FM filter, which cannot be bought separately. Note the considerably higher price.
http://www.icom-france.com/files/doc...A24FRII-fr.pdf
ICOM IC A6FR II VHF aviation homologuée pour utilisation à bord - 5001029 - Radio
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Seriously, are there anal jobsworths about, who are actually going to check that every item has an approval, certification ,or whatever?
I would be surprised if the French were bothered, at grass-roots level, as long as your equipment performed as intended. they are not known for "gold-plating" any diktats....but, on the other hand, it is said they have a predeliction for bits of paper.
I would be surprised if the French were bothered, at grass-roots level, as long as your equipment performed as intended. they are not known for "gold-plating" any diktats....but, on the other hand, it is said they have a predeliction for bits of paper.
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Homebuilt G reg fly in France in compliance with their PtF. No need to have a French approved radio.
Arrêté du 22 mai 2001 relatif au survol du territoire français par des aéronefs de construction amateur immatriculés au Royaume-Uni | Legifrance
Arrêté du 22 mai 2001 relatif au survol du territoire français par des aéronefs de construction amateur immatriculés au Royaume-Uni | Legifrance
Hi abdg
The ICOM radios (A6E/A24E) shown in the French data sheet in patowalker's post are the same as those approved by the CAA for airborne use in Annex 2 aircraft in UK, so you will be OK in France using one even in the unlikely event of a ramp check. Warning, they still are rather finnicky about which headsets and wiring installation they work with; this is much better using an external antenna a metre or so away from the cockpit. Best to carry a spare battery, or a 12V battery and use the power adapter supplied if you are prone to talking a lot. The external FM filter is recommended for external antennas, not mandatory, and is to give the FM immunity that certified installations must have. Possibility of FM broadcast breakthrough if flying very close to a local music station radio antenna. The quality of the music received is not good.
The Yaesu models aren't approved anywhere for airborne use, something to do with transmit overspill into adjacent 8.33 channels.
The ICOM radios (A6E/A24E) shown in the French data sheet in patowalker's post are the same as those approved by the CAA for airborne use in Annex 2 aircraft in UK, so you will be OK in France using one even in the unlikely event of a ramp check. Warning, they still are rather finnicky about which headsets and wiring installation they work with; this is much better using an external antenna a metre or so away from the cockpit. Best to carry a spare battery, or a 12V battery and use the power adapter supplied if you are prone to talking a lot. The external FM filter is recommended for external antennas, not mandatory, and is to give the FM immunity that certified installations must have. Possibility of FM broadcast breakthrough if flying very close to a local music station radio antenna. The quality of the music received is not good.
The Yaesu models aren't approved anywhere for airborne use, something to do with transmit overspill into adjacent 8.33 channels.
If you have budget to buy extras such as handheld radios, I would prioritize things differently. First, I would buy a good headset. Maybe one of those ANR ones, or an in-ear headset. Second on my list would be a good GPS, or (like I have) an iPad with a decent navigation app (SkyDemon is the best option in Europe, I don't know about Canada).
If you fly over hostile terrain a lot (which I can imagine in Canada) my third choice would probably be a PLB and possibly some other survival kit. And in very busy airspace, a PCAS such as the Zaon MRX/XRX or PowerFlarm. A handheld radio would probably come in fourth or fifth place on my list of priorities.
Personally the first thing I would invest in is Foreflight for your I pad with a Bad Elf or equivalent external GPS. The moving map is a huge aid in maintaining situtional awareness and being able to obtain a near real time radar composite radar picture is a very valuable flight planning tool.
I have a handheld radio ( An old King KX99) with a headset adapter that I used to always carry with me but now I never bother as I can get ATC on my cell phone if the radio were to fail.
As far as I can recall I have only ever had 2 for real radio failures in 38 years of flying. On one of them I landed short at an uncontrolled airport and called my home, controlled, field from a pay phone (Collect
) and the second occurred inside the control zone and so I just sqwaked 7600 and continued until I saw the green light and landed.I have however seen many pilot induced radio failures and so it is important to have a systematic troubleshooting methodology to use when you think you have a Comms issue.
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The link I posted was to the A6FR (for French), not the A6E. As stated previously, they are different, in that the FR model has an FM filter, which cannot be purchased separately. ICOM FRANCE : Produits Radiocommunication : Accessoires Platines et filtres : FL-IFFM2
There is no need to try to pass one off as the other, because the UK aircraftradio licence will be accepted in France.
There is no need to try to pass one off as the other, because the UK aircraftradio licence will be accepted in France.
Pato, the amount of knowledge you show and share is impressive. Even more impressive is the (apparent) ease you find the relevant legal documents with, even abroad - I am sure few French(wo)men would do better.
Thanks very much!
Thanks very much!
Thanks to all so far:
BPF - not disagreeing, but I don't have an installed radio and I think in this day and age all are called for. I have an Airspace Aware which meets my needs for GPS and moving map.
@patowalker:
The CAA specifically says that the handheld radios are only permitted within the UK. As a handheld radio isn't part of the aircraft, I'm not certain that the acceptance of our permit aircraft necessarily means a radio being used from within it but that isn't part of it, is also accepted.
BPF - not disagreeing, but I don't have an installed radio and I think in this day and age all are called for. I have an Airspace Aware which meets my needs for GPS and moving map.
@patowalker:
The CAA specifically says that the handheld radios are only permitted within the UK. As a handheld radio isn't part of the aircraft, I'm not certain that the acceptance of our permit aircraft necessarily means a radio being used from within it but that isn't part of it, is also accepted.
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abdg,
If you read the small print on your Permit to Fly, you will see that it "permits this aircraft to fly within United Kingdom airspace only..."
Many countries will still accept the aircraft and its (UK only) approved equipment in their airspace.
Just make sure you have all your UK papers in order.
Jan,
Thanks. I spent 7 years flying out of the only microlight field in Luxembourg, which meant every away landing involved crossing international borders. You need to learn the rules that apply in the different countries, or at least know where to find them - especially if you are going to break those rules.
PS. I also had my microlight based near Chartres for 3 years and tried to get DGAC approval for my UK purchased ICOM A21. Even though I had a letter from ICOM Japan certifying that it was exactly the same as the A21F, approval was not granted.
If you read the small print on your Permit to Fly, you will see that it "permits this aircraft to fly within United Kingdom airspace only..."
Many countries will still accept the aircraft and its (UK only) approved equipment in their airspace.
Just make sure you have all your UK papers in order.
Jan,
Thanks. I spent 7 years flying out of the only microlight field in Luxembourg, which meant every away landing involved crossing international borders. You need to learn the rules that apply in the different countries, or at least know where to find them - especially if you are going to break those rules.
PS. I also had my microlight based near Chartres for 3 years and tried to get DGAC approval for my UK purchased ICOM A21. Even though I had a letter from ICOM Japan certifying that it was exactly the same as the A21F, approval was not granted.
Last edited by patowalker; 8th Feb 2015 at 16:40. Reason: PS