Plane crash Caernarfon

[piperboy84]

Trying to match the photos up with the google earth view, are the trees between the power lines and the undershoot or is it power line, then trees then undershoot.

[treadigraph]

One picture shows power cables along the road

Looking at Bing Maps, that power line actually appears to be a little further to the east inside the caravan park, the other side of the trees and the western most row of caravans - you can just see a pole in the north west corner of the grass area, and follow the line of them to the north.

[742-xx]

As promised last night.
This picture was taken using a cockpit mounted Gopro camera.
This was three weeks ago.
Not brilliant quality.
But I think/hope it shows what is a clear unobstructed approach.

[piperboy84]

Looking at how clear the approach is in 742's pic, you'd have wonder if a misunderstanding of what a displaced threshold actually is could not be ruled out

[maxred]

Looks like runway 26 to me, the signs say that on the pics, I landed there in November and the caravan site, high trees and telegraph poles right at the end of the runway are a surprise

I have landed on this runway many times, and as the above photo clearly shows, there is no problem at all with this runway, nor its approach.

If the comment about this chap hitting trees is accurate, then he severely undershot, and the reasons for this could be many...

[flyalotbob]

Carb ice? Would explain why he was too low

[talkpedlar]

What?

You would intentionally decend through trees because of carb-ice?

[hoodie]

talkpedlar, why the " " ?

Regardless of what happened on this sad occasion, carb ice leading to loss of power and inability to maintain approach flight path is a logical sequence.

[wsmempson]

If the pilot concerned was more used to flying a taper wing PA28, the different glide characteristics of the Hershey-bar wing could well have caught him by surprise, and led to a considerable undershoot. Difficult to imagine, short of engine problems, what else could have resulted in such a monumental FUBAR.

[bingoboy]

What studies have been done on wind turbine vortices?

A crosswind from the right on 26 seems a potential issue or is it an unknown.

[charliejulietwhiskey]

Never flown in there but based on what i can see on google earth it looks like a fine

Re the above quote, read the posts from those of us who have been there.

I agree with Shaggy Sheep, makes sense what you say but as a first timer there I wasn't expecting what I found on finals, I could see how someone could be caught out with the displaced threshold though.

[abgd]

What studies have been done on wind turbine vortices?

The last I read, they didn't cause any additional turbulence.

[maxred]

CJW, out of curiosity, how can a displaced threshold catch you out?

Also, theoretically, how to the extent that one would undershoot and clip some trees?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

No real point in conjecture but there is no real reason ( barring exceptional circumstances ) why anyone should be flying shallow VFR glideslopes in GA aircraft with flaps. A bit of extra height might give you that safety cushion in case of the aircraft going tech on final.

The elephant that might be in the room is a recent thread on here where some folk (at least one who we suspect isn't even a pilot and was subsequently banned) was pushing the idea that everyone should always fly 3 degree approaches.... "that's what PAPIs are for".

This aeroplane appears to have undershot. There could well be a technical reason for that and I'm not saying the accident pilot was using flawed technique. But as a general point, perhaps a look back at that other thread in the light of this tragedy might be educational for those not yet convinced that PAPIs and VASIs (yes, I know there are none at Caernarfon) and 3 degree approaches are not appropriate for light VFR singles except under unusual cirmstances.

I await the AAIB report with interest.

[AirbusA350]

I don't see why everyone is getting the planes age involved. There is a lot of old planes and they all fly perfectly as long as they get they are checked regularly. The reason of the crash hasn't been mentioned yet so we can't blame the planes age.

[stevelup]

A 3° approach wouldn't put you anywhere near those caravans or trees...

[Pace]

It looks like a stall/spin accident caused by low speed back of drag curve with maybe a does of shear ito the equation.

Pace

[mad_jock]

But as a general point, perhaps a look back at that other thread in the light of this tragedy might be educational for those not yet convinced that PAPIs and VASIs (yes, I know there are none at Caernarfon) and 3 degree approaches are not appropriate for light VFR singles except under unusual cirmstances.

well said. Leave 3 deg approaches for times when the risks of not doing one exceed doing one. Which VFR I can't really think of one unless the additional risk is taken for the benefit of training.

[tomtytom]

Anybody see fly bpl owner on the news tonight being interviewed?

[baldwinm]

Quote:
What studies have been done on wind turbine vortices?

The last I read, they didn't cause any additional turbulence.

Where did you read that?

Have a look at

CAP 764: CAA Policy and Guidelines on Wind Turbines

In particular Chapter 2, section 8