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Old 7th Apr 2013, 12:13   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: southampton
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Anyone heard of the the Popham Flying Group?

I was at Popham the other day and saw and advert for shares in the Popham flying group - 3 aircraft PA 17 PA 22 and Wassmer 52 - £50 a month. Am looking for a decent synidicate in this area - tying to find out if this one is as good as it looks. Thanks in advance
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Old 7th Apr 2013, 18:29   #2 (permalink)
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They've crashed four PA-22s in four years
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Old 8th Apr 2013, 06:56   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
They've crashed four PA-22s in four years
Four Pa22s or one 4 times?
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Old 8th Apr 2013, 07:53   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The Popham Flying Group is definitely still active. I'm hoping to fly one of the aircraft later today. Pm for details.
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Old 8th Apr 2013, 15:46   #5 (permalink)
 
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Looks like three aircraft, one having two "events", this link seems to suggest it was actually the same person, is that right? If so, is that person still in the group???

Last edited by foxmoth; 8th Apr 2013 at 16:10.
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Old 8th Apr 2013, 16:07   #6 (permalink)
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Apologies, it was four in six years. I think one PA-22 they did a bionic man job on but I'm not sure how many different PA-22's they decimated!
Still, it shows how rugged the PA-22 is
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Old 9th Apr 2013, 01:27   #7 (permalink)
 
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I was a member and it was an OK group. They did crash the PA22s (not the same pilot). Foxmoth, the website you linked to is run by an ex member with a grudge, so I hear. Don't know why the PA22's had "incidents", there weren't any problems with the PA17 or the Wassmer 52. It's worth getting in touch if you are looking for a group. You can always ask about the PA22s!
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Old 9th Apr 2013, 13:49   #8 (permalink)
 
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Thanks Bee, unless you know it is always difficult to know how much credence to give a website like this!
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Old 9th Apr 2013, 16:44   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Thanks for the link there was nothing coming up in Google on this group. The website link seems to me just a list of accidents with photos of the wrecks, hardly grudge material. All of the info checks out in AAIB and the French BEA though, oddly there is nothing on the September 2012 incident yet. BUT this syndicate’s history has certainly made me think twice about handing over a wad of cash! Been doing a bit of research at Popham and it looks like folks have been walking away from this syndicate and leaving their cash behind and others are desperate to leave.(so I am told) The Wassmer has been US for over six months – a door came open in flight! 4 PA22s written off and the PA 17 comes up in the AAIB list twice from hard landing incidents which I would imagine required major reconstructive surgery I think I'll stay well clear of this one!
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Old 12th Apr 2013, 15:46   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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There are a lot of syndicates at Popham.

The best bet is to just go there, buy a cup of coffee, and read the noticeboard.

The man I'd trust for an honest opinion about any syndicate or aeroplane at Popham is the semi-resident instructor, Irv Lee. He posts on PPRuNe as Irv (I don't think that's giving much away!).

P

Last edited by Pilotage; 12th Apr 2013 at 15:49.
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Old 16th May 2014, 20:17   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Danger Popham Flying Group

I left the Group recently. There is a possible legal action taking place against one of the committee members. I never felt comfortable about the ethics of some aspects of what went on. I`m glad to put the whole thing behind me. It wasnt a very pleasant experience. For an independent opinion from a non Group member, talk to Irv Lee who is an extremely experienced flying instructor at Popham.
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Old 16th May 2014, 21:26   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I'm still in the group. Doing lots of flying and enjoying it. Don't see where Matthew is coming from but respect his opinion. It's just the opposite of mine!
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Old 16th May 2014, 22:39   #13 (permalink)
 
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I flew G-ARCC with this group in 2000/2001. I was very relieved when I sold my share.
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Old 17th May 2014, 09:06   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Ask some pertinent questions

Be very careful and ask lots of questions.

Good ones would be:

Will I get a share certificate?

Will my share actually be registered with the CAA?

Why are all the shares the same price irrespective of aircraft operating costs, value of the aircraft or number of members?

Is it true if anything goes wrong I have unlimited personal liability?

Is the entire operation within the ANO?

Who does the check rides real instructors or Biggles wannabes?

In the long run you could be parting with more than your 1800 quid joining fee.

When things are cheap they are cheap for a reason.

Irv Lee really is worth talking to first, try.

Irv Lee - UK Pilot Mentoring, Aviation Seminars, Artcles, Consultancy CAA/JAA/SA Approved Flying Instruction
irv@higherplane.co.uk
0777 91 90 598
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Old 17th May 2014, 15:21   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Good questions Steve! All answered thank you. Anyway as mentioned if anyone wants to know anything about the group then please PM. Seems to be too many people who have only ever posted on this subject so I won't feed the troll any longer! Enjoy your flying.
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Old 17th May 2014, 15:35   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Talking

I did a lot of research on the Popham flying group before deciding to keep a safe distance.
It was formed in 1992 when the CAA decided to enforce the law on ownership which group owned aircraft were falling foul of. Before they brought in the 5% rule all group owned aircraft should have operated on a public certificate. After it's introduction groups were exempt public certification as long as the complied with the 5% rule.
The Popham flying group had 3 aircraft and had to re arrange themselves to get around the 5% rule and still allow people to have access to all 3 aircraft
They did this by having secondary shares that members bought to become temporary co-owners and the temporary members would be registered with the CAA as co-owners and all would look legal and above board.
The rules given to the members claimed that each member owns 5% of the aircraft they have joined - the CAA are told a different story depending on how many are in the group at the time (the CAA are told this is an equal share so ten in the group would 10%)
Draw you own conclusions on the legality of this
The last poster was right all the fees charged at the same and this pays for everything so there is cross subsidy taking place.
Mr shortleg may be enjoying his cheap flying with them but the poor guys in the G-ARHN group paid £1500 in 2 an1/2 years and got not one hour of flying!
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Old 21st May 2014, 11:36   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: London
Posts: 95
Gosh!

I was a member for three years. But I flew the PA17 mainly and the Wasser occasionally. No incidents on the PA17 but then it attracted a small core of experienced flyers. The same for the Wassmer which also intimidated some members. The PA22 was definitely seen as the easier option and was by far the most popular of the three aircraft on offer.

FWIW, I thought the group was well run and organized. Always in the black during my tenure. There was the inevitable politics which is going to be ever present, but I found it easy to get on with everybody. The people who took responsibility for the money and the aircraft I operated were, in my honest opinion, competent and dedicated.

I enjoyed my time with the group immensely with plenty of great experiences.
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