PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st Feb 2013, 01:33   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: California
Posts: 11
Socata TB20/21 vs. Mooney 201J/252 vs. Beechcraft Bonanza V35

I am looking to buy a high performance used aircraft after completing my private pilot license and complex/high performance ratings to use for instrument and commercial training. The three models are in consideration:

Beechcraft Bonanza V35 (V-tail)
Socata TB20/21
Mooney 201J/252

Which is the best overall plane which has the highest fun factor and lowest cost for maintenance and insurance as well as best reliability. Mission profile is 2-3 passengers including me and the ability to fly high, fast and far on fuel economy.
skynewbie is offline   Reply
Old 22nd Feb 2013, 03:51   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 3,919
You really need to better define what you need to be able to do ie max pax + bags that must be able to be carried and over what distance and into what type of airfield, and then what you would like as icing on the cake.

Then do a spreadsheet of pros & cons for all 5 types you mention. TB20 & 21 are different w.r.t. engine turbocharing & cruise speed, Mooney 201 & 252 are similarly different.

Have you also considered some of Cessna's & Piper's single engine retractables too eg C210, C182RG, PA32R (Lance & Saratoga) and, considering that you have included a V-tail Bo, a Piper PA24 Comanche?

It may well be that a 6 seater like a C210 will better manage the range you need for the pax load, compared to a 4 seater. Having said that, a C182 has a pretty good payload/range combination.

Last edited by Tinstaafl; 24th Feb 2013 at 00:59.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply
Old 23rd Feb 2013, 00:21   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK and points South
Posts: 1,849
The OP says 'for training', so I assume (always a dangerous thing, I know), that this a/c will then be sold on or leased to an FTO. If this is correct, then I'd say 'none of the above', as none of them are commonly used for training. I'd go with a C182RG or even a C172RG which is frequently used for commercial/instrument training. If there is an element of private flying, then again the 182RG or, of course, the 210, both of which are great a/c for personal transportation. Another option could be a Piper Lance.
172driver is offline   Reply
Old 23rd Feb 2013, 16:54   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 3,919
Not just for training. He also wants the ability to take 2-3 pax & fly high, far & fast with good fuel economy.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply
Old 23rd Feb 2013, 18:55   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK and points South
Posts: 1,849
Point taken (note to self - need to read whole posts before replying), but I'll stick by my Cessna guns regardless, as they tick all the boxes.
172driver is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 00:53   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: California
Posts: 11
Cessna 182RG

I agree for a transition and first plane, I can get checked out over a weekend in a Cessna 172RG and the following week in a Cessna 182RG. Then do instrument and commercial in one or move up to a Bonanza or Socata. Mooney look nice and are fast but I like more than one door and it is very small.
skynewbie is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 00:55   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 3,919
Something that just occured to me: The OP used the terms 'complex' & 'high performance' so I presume the OP is US based (?) & after FAA licences & ratings so whatever aircraft is chosen, it will have to satisfy those requirements. A C172RG doesn't have the HP to meet the High Performance requirement.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 01:30   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK and points South
Posts: 1,849
No, but for the training bit the 172RG fulfills the 'complex' requirements. Doesn't need to be HP.
172driver is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 02:34   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 218
I think a (four cylinder) Mooney 201 would overall be the most economical and practical of the three mentioned , but make sure the small cabin suits your two - three occupants. I'm not sure any of the three really check the 'fun factor' box, they are machines made for personal transportation, versus fun... and that is what they do well. Instrument training is a way to get the most out of that capability.

A friend of mine has a wonderful Comanche 180, and loves it. His is more of a beautiful time warp aircraft than a modern instrument trainer, but its carried him far and wide.

I'd get a Bellanca Viking - cheap, fast, super cool and totally impractical for the uncommitted. That's why they're cheap

Last edited by Silvaire1; 24th Feb 2013 at 02:51.
Silvaire1 is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 07:41   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,483
There is a detailed TB20 writeup here, under Misc Articles.
peterh337 is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 10:30   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 1,021
This,

Beech Bums

will give you all you need to know reference the Bonanza.
maxred is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 16:12   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: California
Posts: 11
Thanks

Appreciate the advice.
skynewbie is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 16:23   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Coast Canada
Posts: 2,240
The best first airplane for a new pilot IMO is the fixed gear Cessna 182. Fast enough to be useful for cross countries, carries a big load, passengers like the roomy cabin and it is the best IFR trainer ever made. They are also easy to maintain and you won't have any trouble getting insurance.

Get a few hundred hours under you belt and you will know what you really want. At that point it will be easy to sell the C 182 as they are always in demand.

Before buying anything I would first talk to an insurance broker. I think you will find insurance on a high performance retractable for a brand new non instrumented rated private pilot expensive and with lots of conditions.
Big Pistons Forever is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 16:50   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 1,021
Quote:
Before buying anything I would first talk to an insurance broker. I think you will find insurance on a high performance retractable for a brand new non instrumented rated private pilot expensive and with lots of conditions.
Excellent point. Nobody can get near my Bonanza, without 250 hours minimum, complex type.

Not that I let anyone else fly it
maxred is offline   Reply
Old 24th Feb 2013, 21:56   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 3,919
The aerobatic version of the 33 model Bonanza ticks the box for fun, too. Four seat tourer or kick the rear row out for yippee flights.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply
Old 25th Feb 2013, 00:57   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: California
Posts: 11
Is the F33 Bonanza the aerobatic one you're talking about?
No rush to buy as I need to finish my PPL first then get complex/high performance endorsements this summer.

I like the Beechcraft Debonair and Socata TB 20/21 planes.
skynewbie is offline   Reply
Old 26th Feb 2013, 01:33   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 3,919
The F33C, I think it was. Flew one a couple of times but don't remember all its details.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply
Old 26th Feb 2013, 05:27   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 358
E33C or F33C it would be, very rare and probably not in the OP price range.
Don't rule out an early 70ies A36, lots of room, more practical CG range and big rear doors, much more payload than recent models.
dirkdj is offline   Reply
Old 26th Feb 2013, 21:32   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: California
Posts: 11
first airplane

Well folks,

Since I need to finish my PPL checkride and more training I am not in a rush. I really like the sleek design of the Socata TB20/21. Mooney and Beechcraft are cool but Mooney very small.
skynewbie is offline   Reply
Old 27th Feb 2013, 02:42   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 3,919
Not been in a TB20/21 but I have ~500 hours too many in a TB10. Didn't like that aeroplane at all for handling, performance & comfort.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:37.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network