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Old 17th Dec 2012, 16:02   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aviemore
Posts: 5
RT Training

Hey peeps, I am currently undergoing some training for RT exam.. I am trying to find somewhere that I may be able to listen to Pilots/ATC talk to one another over the Internet.
Does anyone know where I can find this info....Tried Youtube...but only getting RT from USA...I live in the UK and I'm not sure if it is the same "Lingo".

Thanks

Stewart
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 16:10   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1,518
Listening in to ATC here is technically illegal so you won't get any Internet feeds. Get yourself a handheld receiver and (ssshhh!) listen to some appropriate frequencies. You'll need to be near by, though, to pick up Tower/AFIS/A/G so you won't be doing it from home in Aviemore...

Tim

(Stands by for abuse for telling you to listen in, but hey...)
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 16:17   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aviemore
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I didn't realise that TMMORRIS, but thanks for letting me know. I have been listening to RT inside a cockpit with Student/Instructor whilst flying....on Youtube. Was kind hoping there was somewhere on the internet like this. One can only hope.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 16:30   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
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And if you don't have a scanner or anything, just spend the "dead" time at your airfield/school by sitting in an airplane and just listening in to the R/T. Most schools don't mind that, as long as you don't run the battery down. (The resident engineer might be able to hook you up to ground power.)

If you get an intercom splitter (such as this one: Video Recorder Audio Adapter - Fixed Wing - MyPilotStore.com) you can use any audio or video recorder (laptop, iPhone, ...) to record a few hours of R/T, to use at your leisure later. (Technically that would probably be illegal but as long as you don't distribute it, who's going to know?)

It's true that most ATC sites on the internet are indeed US, and US R/T is different from the UK. But you should be able to find some other European countries online that are quite similar to the UK.

Atcbox has a number of Dutch feeds and since the R/T in NL is all in English, you should be able to gain something from them. Dutch controlled fields are very similar to UK controlled fields, and Dutch uncontrolled fields are very similar to UK A/G fields (except for the overhead join, which is not used in NL). There is no real equivalent to a UK AFIS field however that I know of, that would be useful listening to.

UK ATSOCAS services are also pretty unique so listening to a foreign en-route INFO service will not help a lot.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 16:49   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Listening to RT on the air is not the best way to learn it because you will hear very little compared to what you are required to know and much of it will be incorrect, so you begin by learning all the wrong things.

Better than you learn the correct calls from the books or better still in a classroom and then practice them when flying.

You will never pass an RT test on the basis of what you hear on the radio!
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 16:58   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ireland
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As above, there is so much non-standard phraseology in use on the frequencies, you are much better off listening to/reading training material to pass the exam. A lot of the stuff you would be listening to via internet would be IFR anyway and largely irrelevant to the VFR RT exam. Best to learn the exact phraseology (and pronunciation) before getting into any bad habits. For the exam learn your Mayday/Pan calls and the services each type of controller/radio officer can provide, etc.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 17:06   #7 (permalink)
 
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Google CAP 413 supp 2. Comes onto the screen in book format. (I know not the easiest to read). There are tabs on some of the pages where you can listen to spoken messages.

D.O.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 17:35   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Listening to RT on the air is not the best way to learn it because you will hear very little compared to what you are required to know and much of it will be incorrect, so you begin by learning all the wrong things.
I agree that there's a fair amount of bad R/T around, and you should not use those bad examples in your exam or real-world flying.

But R/T is a language on its own. The speed is sometimes twice the normal conversation speed, there's static on the line, people are stepping onto other peoples conversations, there's loads of callsigns in use, people are making very short (and sometimes clipped) radio calls which hold a very precise meaning, and you've got to interpret all these phonetic alphabet letters. It takes a while to get "tuned" to it. You can try to get tuned to R/T while also trying to keep an aircraft in the air, while an instructor is trying to talk you through the next exercise and you are spending 150-200 UKP an hour, or you can try to do it at your leisure, for free.

I bought a 2nd hand scanner for 40 euros or so, and spent literally dozens of hours listening to the R/T of my local airport (Schiphol). Even though that's 99% IFR and my subsequent flying was in the US, VFR, I was already "tuned" to hearing R/T and it was just a matter of learning different calls. I think I was confidently handling the radio on my fifth flight or so. To the amazement of my instructor.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 18:54   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belfast
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You can get dublin on a live feed, even thought its not strictly in the UK, theres a lot of traffic from the UK going in there.
After a search, the feed is down at the minute, but i'm sure it wont be long until its back and may prove to be what your looking for! (There are still archived feeds still available tho!)

Last edited by ggargan; 17th Dec 2012 at 18:57.
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Old 17th Dec 2012, 19:14   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aviemore
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I am using CAP 413 supp and pooleys Radiotelephony book to study, but my airfield is "Military" and was where the Nimrods were based until it was scrapped....Now the Flying school an RAF non profit organisation flight training school with NO ATC during weekend...Autonomos Ops. So gonna have to get through during week for ATC. I have however booked a few lessons with an ATC controller from Inverness whom is also the examiner. Hopefully will learn all I need to learn from him.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 17:27   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: scotland
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It is a good idea to get some instruction from the guy at inverness. Also have a look at CAP413 supplement 3 as well. In addition to emergencies look up the VDF procedure for requesting a QDM, QDR or QTE. The main thing with RT is to be safe and to communicate. have a look at www.flyontrack.co.uk there is a useful aid there for the basic transmissions. if you select Airspace and Safety initiatives at the bottom then Downloads there is an RT kneeboard version that may help you.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 17:51   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
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Quote:
In addition to emergencies look up the VDF procedure for requesting a QDM, QDR or QTE.
Don't use these. They are as old and outdated as the retired posters on these forums.

Ask for radar vectors instead. Much more accurate and everyone understands what you're asking for.

Radar coverage in the UK is excellent above 3000ft.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 18:07   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hastings, UK and LA, USA
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The UK law that prohibits you listening in is also perhaps the least enforced law in the history of laws. Apparently, no one has ever been tried. It's stupid and should go away immediately as it is unenforceable. And, as in this case, one could argue, a detriment to the safety of aviation as it won't allow students to practice vital skills.

Honestly, what mental patient came up with the idea that listening to a radio in an aircraft is OK, but not on a radio removed 1ft from an aircraft? What difference does it make?

Last edited by AdamFrisch; 18th Dec 2012 at 18:09.
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Old 18th Dec 2012, 22:48   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK, mainly
Age: 30
Posts: 415
Quote:
They are as old and outdated as the retired posters on these forums.
True, but not relevant to the UK FRTOL test - rightly or wrongly, the test profile includes these, as does the PPL syllabus (QDM/QDR, rather than retired posters!)

Quote:
Radar coverage in the UK is excellent above 3000ft.
Less true I'm afraid, especially in the OP's area. There are many areas in Scotland where sub-6000' I've struggled for radar coverage in the past - usually single pilot IFR at night... True for the south though, although weekend radar cover is restricted by the lack of many LARS providers.
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Old 23rd Dec 2012, 17:03   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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RT Training

I agree with not listening.... Hehe the things i have heard!

"Don't overfill" hit the nail on the head, don't worry about it, it is quite easy and is over in minutes.

If you have passed your test then you will walk the rt as you would have used lots of rt by now already

Last edited by Pilot.Lyons; 23rd Dec 2012 at 17:29.
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Old 23rd Dec 2012, 18:34   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 375
Hi, there are basicaly two types of radio traffic: those that fly airways in CAS, and the PPL rest. Although you are required by the FRTOL Exam to know the PPL phraseology involved, what is a real bonus when flying, is getting a mental picture of your surrounding flights.

For instance if you are about to fly circuits at a busy airfield, you might hear ... A.. Taking off runway 23 Left Hand circuit. B.. Downwind to land 23. C.. Final Touch and Go runway 23.
This gives you a mental picture that there are at least three airplanes in the circuit, all equally spaced. The Runway in use is RW23, and the circuit pattern is LH Circuits.

What you then need to be able to do, in 60 seconds time, is to still imagine where everyone is. i.e C has done his T+G and is in the climb, B will be just ready to call 'Final 23', and A is either joining the circuit on the downwind leg or departing for a cross country.

It is even possible to imagine where some of the CAS Traffic is just by listening to their transmissions... So on 133.600 Mhz.. 'Hello London, this is Yankie Clipper 21, Flight Level 390 inbound to 'Nigit'' Is obviously an American flight inbound to London just overhead Carmarthen.
If listening to Scottish 128.050 and you hear 'Easyjet 235 descend Flight Level 060 by Wallasey' He is either over the Irish Sea from Ireland or over Mid-Wales from Spain or Tenerife, heading into Liverpool.

If you listen long enough to the air-bands, you will get to know what frequencies cover what areas, and that at slack times (say 23:00.-06:00.) some frequencies and areas are coupled or 'band-boxed.'
If you combine your listening with watching Flightradar24, you will soon be able to get the flight picture, and maybe even second guess who is going to say what next, or who is going to be next on the frequency.
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Old 23rd Dec 2012, 22:53   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: South of England
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Quote:
Quote:
In addition to emergencies look up the VDF procedure for requesting a QDM, QDR or QTE.
Don't use these. They are as old and outdated as the retired posters on these forums.

Ask for radar vectors instead. Much more accurate and everyone understands what you're asking for.

Radar coverage in the UK is excellent above 3000ft.
Pretty daft advice if the ATC unit of your destination aerodrome does not have radar!

2 s
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 10:22   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,653
I think there are 2 parts to this question and they have been addressed already in the thread, but not in one post:

Passing the RT exam:
You won't do this by listening to RT. The exam is (or was when I did it way back when) all about using the exactly correct phraseology and proceedures, including many proceedures and situations you'll be most unlikely to meet in a SEP. For this, study the relevant CAP pubication.

Being competent on the radio:
For this, listening to RT is extrememly helpful, backed up by operatring in a busy traffic environment. It teaches you use of the radio in the practical manner (though not always technically correct) that real-world pilots use.
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 13:59   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glens o' Angus by way of LA
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Probably not the best source of RT learning but it does have a May Day call in there, also not sure if Scottish information would appreciate Wagner being blasted in the background.

Apocalypse Now helicopter attack scene - YouTube
&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1"> Apocalypse Now helicopter attack scene - YouTube
&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="350" wmode="transparent">
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Old 24th Dec 2012, 22:40   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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RT Training

As with piper boy but could be a panpan instead of mayday
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