Flying a Cub - tips?
Hi Fitter2,
I would like to take issue with you on a couple of points. I agree that Cubs (and the Citabria family) are relatively docile, since they have steerable tailwheels. Anything with a castering tailwheel, including the Chipmunk, can be much more of a handful, to the point of making a "compleat" fool of the pilot
Concerning crosswinds, I have flown Scouts for many hours at gliding fields in gusty crosswind conditions and have almost* never had any problems with taildown landings. Not three-pointers of course - two-pointers on the upwind main-wheel and the tail-wheel.
* There was one occasion late in the landing run, when a wing lifted alarmingly. A thermal taking off - that's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I would like to take issue with you on a couple of points. I agree that Cubs (and the Citabria family) are relatively docile, since they have steerable tailwheels. Anything with a castering tailwheel, including the Chipmunk, can be much more of a handful, to the point of making a "compleat" fool of the pilot
Concerning crosswinds, I have flown Scouts for many hours at gliding fields in gusty crosswind conditions and have almost* never had any problems with taildown landings. Not three-pointers of course - two-pointers on the upwind main-wheel and the tail-wheel.
* There was one occasion late in the landing run, when a wing lifted alarmingly. A thermal taking off - that's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Last edited by India Four Two; 31st Oct 2012 at 10:08.
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The closest I ever came to ground looping in 33 years of taildragging was on my beloved Chippy. It was the first flight in her after a few years in a Yak52 group (I'd previously been in the Chippy group for a couple of decades so had lots of Chippy time).
The Yak52 lands itself. It's the easiest-to-land aeroplane I have ever flown.
On that first 'return to Chippy' flight I turned off the runway (grass) a bit sharpish and tad too fast. I felt the tail step out, but full opposite rudder and a gentle yank on the brake lever got back her in line before she swung. It was close run thing, though!
The other time I was nearly embarrased was taxying downwind in a very strong tailwind and allowing the rudder to blow over to full deflection. That put a brake on and lifted the tail despite full forward stick. I instantly shut the throttle and she teetered for a monent before gracefully placing her tailwheel on the ground again. I learned, after that, to only taxy in such conditions with feet braced hard on the rudder pedals, as for a tail slide!
The Yak52 lands itself. It's the easiest-to-land aeroplane I have ever flown.
On that first 'return to Chippy' flight I turned off the runway (grass) a bit sharpish and tad too fast. I felt the tail step out, but full opposite rudder and a gentle yank on the brake lever got back her in line before she swung. It was close run thing, though!
The other time I was nearly embarrased was taxying downwind in a very strong tailwind and allowing the rudder to blow over to full deflection. That put a brake on and lifted the tail despite full forward stick. I instantly shut the throttle and she teetered for a monent before gracefully placing her tailwheel on the ground again. I learned, after that, to only taxy in such conditions with feet braced hard on the rudder pedals, as for a tail slide!
a bit sharpish and tad too fast
That momentary sinking feeling as you realize things are about to go very pear-shaped; a sigh of relief as you regain control and then the mental note to be moving more slowly before turning next time!
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I always think of it as 'try to prevent the aeroplane from touching down'. With the wheels just shy of the runway keep easing the stick back e-v-e-r so gently ensuring she neither climbs or decends until, despite your best efforts, she defies your back-stick commands and touches down. The stick will be a long way back by then, but as she settles 'on' bring it to the back stop and hold it there.
The trick is to do this just above the runway. If you do it too high you'll feel the bottom drop out of your world as, despite full back stick, she suddenly sinks. In this event, cushion the touch down with a little added power and if you do it with feeling you'll save the day (you'll instinctively use a little rudder with throttle to obviate any power-induced swing, of course!). One hand on the stick, one on the throttle, and feet ready on the rudders.
If you hold off too low the mains will hit the runway before you intended them too, and she'll bounce nose-high. catch it with power and ease her back down. Or go-around if the strip is very short and it's a performance landing.
Then keep her on the centreline. Don't stop flying her 'till your all switched off and out of the cockpit!
The amazing thing is, that when you start to do this it seems impossible - so much to think about and to do all at once. But it WILL become instinctive. Your hands and feet will move before your brain realises they need to!
The trick is to do this just above the runway. If you do it too high you'll feel the bottom drop out of your world as, despite full back stick, she suddenly sinks. In this event, cushion the touch down with a little added power and if you do it with feeling you'll save the day (you'll instinctively use a little rudder with throttle to obviate any power-induced swing, of course!). One hand on the stick, one on the throttle, and feet ready on the rudders.
If you hold off too low the mains will hit the runway before you intended them too, and she'll bounce nose-high. catch it with power and ease her back down. Or go-around if the strip is very short and it's a performance landing.
Then keep her on the centreline. Don't stop flying her 'till your all switched off and out of the cockpit!
The amazing thing is, that when you start to do this it seems impossible - so much to think about and to do all at once. But it WILL become instinctive. Your hands and feet will move before your brain realises they need to!
Last edited by Shaggy Sheep Driver; 31st Oct 2012 at 14:34.
Silvaire1,
Very interesting. I had never read about Army and Navy techniques.
For a second, I thought you were going to tell us the Navy technique was a 'no-flare' landing.
A concern I would have about the Navy technique is getting slow on final and then flying through a wind-gradient. How do you handle that?
If I'm aiming for a no-float landing, I slow-down and apply power to compensate for being on the back-side of the drag curve.
SSD,
That was the way I was taught, even on tricycle gear. Of course, this was so long ago that one of my instructors at White Waltham was "Wilbur" Wright!
Do they teach things differently these days?
Very interesting. I had never read about Army and Navy techniques.
For a second, I thought you were going to tell us the Navy technique was a 'no-flare' landing.
A concern I would have about the Navy technique is getting slow on final and then flying through a wind-gradient. How do you handle that?
If I'm aiming for a no-float landing, I slow-down and apply power to compensate for being on the back-side of the drag curve.
I always think of it as 'try to prevent the aeroplane from touching down'
That was the way I was taught, even on tricycle gear. Of course, this was so long ago that one of my instructors at White Waltham was "Wilbur" Wright!
Do they teach things differently these days?
Last edited by India Four Two; 31st Oct 2012 at 14:50.
Twenty-nine posts well worth the read. Thanks lads and lassies.
Serves to remind of the most vital, overriding aspect of maintaining
proficiency . . . never ever do you stop learning. . . stop refreshing. .
. . . unless you are so complacent you think you know it all . . . or
have stopped thinking entirely . . . because you simply can't be bothered
making the effort.
J.A.F.O.'s long post is excellent. When he describes the landscape
with such acute appreciation it is akin to the glorious images
conjured up by the late Hal Penrose in Airymouse and Cloud Cuckooland.
by J.A.F.O. -
He guided me to Deenethorpe along a track he knew well; pointing out the site of Fotheringhay Castle, where Mary lost her head, the faint tracks of Roman roads still marking the landscape beneath, crop marks that showed where people had lived two thousand years before, looking up at this sky that was now mine. Green fields bordered by darker hedgerows; the occasional church spire in a far off village; clouds of dust following harvesting tractors; fluffy white cumulus clouds in the unending blue above and around me; the feel of an aeroplane that wanted to fly and almost seemed to enjoy this as much as me.
Beautiful poetic waffle? Not a bit of it. It is the perfect counter to the
thought and practice that go into keeping your hand in with the practicalities
of flying your aeroplane proficiently. Always.
Watching an eighty-five year old bloke flying his Pitts S2B yesterday brought to mind the thought that not only is he doing it because he can, but moreover because it is a tonic that keeps him on the ball , with his passion for wings alive and thriving. When you're on a good thing. . . . stick to it .. Reckon that's Allan's motto.
Getting the hand and eye (and feet) in flying a mate's Rapide lately has been a challenge and a highly satisfying experience. As often remarked, once you get the feel of the old girl and be ready just after take-off or on approach to pick up a wing with bags of rudder , not just aileron, as a tip stall can ruin your day., . . . .she feels and progresses as stately as a galleon. Landings. . .. . so far, every one has been a piece of piss. .. .
As someone said on this thread about another taildragger's characteristics . . she just lands herself. The hardest thing about a DH89 is taxying in any kind of a breeze .. . . you need four hands and four arms and the flexibility of a contortionist. Seems the type has a history of nose overs . .
Surely that would be with an empty plane. . . as with the parachutes gone . . .With a full cabin of adults she does not seem to have the slightest tendency
to want to pitch up. Glad of a long airstrip though .. . as attempting a short fielder and heaving back on the brake lever. . . . . not on your nellie.
Serves to remind of the most vital, overriding aspect of maintaining
proficiency . . . never ever do you stop learning. . . stop refreshing. .
. . . unless you are so complacent you think you know it all . . . or
have stopped thinking entirely . . . because you simply can't be bothered
making the effort.
J.A.F.O.'s long post is excellent. When he describes the landscape
with such acute appreciation it is akin to the glorious images
conjured up by the late Hal Penrose in Airymouse and Cloud Cuckooland.
by J.A.F.O. -
He guided me to Deenethorpe along a track he knew well; pointing out the site of Fotheringhay Castle, where Mary lost her head, the faint tracks of Roman roads still marking the landscape beneath, crop marks that showed where people had lived two thousand years before, looking up at this sky that was now mine. Green fields bordered by darker hedgerows; the occasional church spire in a far off village; clouds of dust following harvesting tractors; fluffy white cumulus clouds in the unending blue above and around me; the feel of an aeroplane that wanted to fly and almost seemed to enjoy this as much as me.
Beautiful poetic waffle? Not a bit of it. It is the perfect counter to the
thought and practice that go into keeping your hand in with the practicalities
of flying your aeroplane proficiently. Always.
Watching an eighty-five year old bloke flying his Pitts S2B yesterday brought to mind the thought that not only is he doing it because he can, but moreover because it is a tonic that keeps him on the ball , with his passion for wings alive and thriving. When you're on a good thing. . . . stick to it .. Reckon that's Allan's motto.
Getting the hand and eye (and feet) in flying a mate's Rapide lately has been a challenge and a highly satisfying experience. As often remarked, once you get the feel of the old girl and be ready just after take-off or on approach to pick up a wing with bags of rudder , not just aileron, as a tip stall can ruin your day., . . . .she feels and progresses as stately as a galleon. Landings. . .. . so far, every one has been a piece of piss. .. .
As someone said on this thread about another taildragger's characteristics . . she just lands herself. The hardest thing about a DH89 is taxying in any kind of a breeze .. . . you need four hands and four arms and the flexibility of a contortionist. Seems the type has a history of nose overs . .
Surely that would be with an empty plane. . . as with the parachutes gone . . .With a full cabin of adults she does not seem to have the slightest tendency
to want to pitch up. Glad of a long airstrip though .. . as attempting a short fielder and heaving back on the brake lever. . . . . not on your nellie.
Last edited by Fantome; 29th Jun 2014 at 17:00.
