Banning Genghis the Engineer
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Banning Genghis the Engineer
The thread asking where is Genghis the Engineer had an explanation added to it by Pprune Towers explaining at least in outline what has happened to GTE, and then the thread was locked.
Before learning from Pprune Towers what had happened, I had assumed that GTE’s absence was of his own choosing and posted appropriately on that thread. However now that I’ve learnt from Pprune Towers that GTE’s absence is enforced and not of his own choosing I feel the need to express my dismay at the decision.
I have only met GTE once. That was earlier this year at the Pprune flyin that HE organised. However I don’t think you need to have met him to know that he is an extremely nice person. His post here have always been well mannered and professional, and whatever it is that has happened, it seems extremely unlikely given his character that being banned is the appropriate solution.
This forum, private flying is the second most popular forum on this site by posts. It’s second only to Jet Blast. That’s not bad for a private flight forum on a Professional Pilots site!
The reason it’s so popular is in my opinion because of the quality of a small number of posters, who freely give their time and expertise. There are many willing to give their time, but only a small number who have the expertise and are willing to share it consistently with others here.
I would say that the number of those people who have exceptional expertise, the time to share it and are willing to share it on a consistent basis on this forum is probably in or around 10.
GTE is one of those 10 people. His absence is a major loss.
It should be remembered that without these people who attract other users, Private Flying forum, and Pprune itself is nothing more than an empty website. If these people don’t post here Pprune has no attraction for other users, and thus no attraction for advertisers, and quickly dies. From the postings on the other thread, it looks like if GTE goes some of the other major contributors also go in sympathy. That would be a major loss, not just for the rest of us users, but also Pprune itself.
I would simply like to express my dismay at the situation, and do so here because I can’t do so on the other thread which was locked.
I appreciate that Pprune Towers will probably delete or lock this thread, but I ask him not to. This thread is not asking for an explanation, it’s not criticising Pprune nor demanding anything. It’s simply a place where the ordinary members of this forum can express our upset with what has happened and the loss that we feel has befallen our forum. The members of Private Flying need somewhere to express that, because we can’t do so on a locked thread.
dp
ps. By the way I think it’s wrong that Pprune Towers used GTE’s real name on the other thread. That should be removed. GTE never used his real name on this forum and it shouldn’t be disclosed by another moderator on his behalf.
Before learning from Pprune Towers what had happened, I had assumed that GTE’s absence was of his own choosing and posted appropriately on that thread. However now that I’ve learnt from Pprune Towers that GTE’s absence is enforced and not of his own choosing I feel the need to express my dismay at the decision.
I have only met GTE once. That was earlier this year at the Pprune flyin that HE organised. However I don’t think you need to have met him to know that he is an extremely nice person. His post here have always been well mannered and professional, and whatever it is that has happened, it seems extremely unlikely given his character that being banned is the appropriate solution.
This forum, private flying is the second most popular forum on this site by posts. It’s second only to Jet Blast. That’s not bad for a private flight forum on a Professional Pilots site!
The reason it’s so popular is in my opinion because of the quality of a small number of posters, who freely give their time and expertise. There are many willing to give their time, but only a small number who have the expertise and are willing to share it consistently with others here.
I would say that the number of those people who have exceptional expertise, the time to share it and are willing to share it on a consistent basis on this forum is probably in or around 10.
GTE is one of those 10 people. His absence is a major loss.
It should be remembered that without these people who attract other users, Private Flying forum, and Pprune itself is nothing more than an empty website. If these people don’t post here Pprune has no attraction for other users, and thus no attraction for advertisers, and quickly dies. From the postings on the other thread, it looks like if GTE goes some of the other major contributors also go in sympathy. That would be a major loss, not just for the rest of us users, but also Pprune itself.
I would simply like to express my dismay at the situation, and do so here because I can’t do so on the other thread which was locked.
I appreciate that Pprune Towers will probably delete or lock this thread, but I ask him not to. This thread is not asking for an explanation, it’s not criticising Pprune nor demanding anything. It’s simply a place where the ordinary members of this forum can express our upset with what has happened and the loss that we feel has befallen our forum. The members of Private Flying need somewhere to express that, because we can’t do so on a locked thread.
dp
ps. By the way I think it’s wrong that Pprune Towers used GTE’s real name on the other thread. That should be removed. GTE never used his real name on this forum and it shouldn’t be disclosed by another moderator on his behalf.
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I agree. I am mostly a reader on PPRuNe, but the valuable comments of various people on this board including GTE made my personal flying safer and more fun.
If you decide to ban a person that is one thing. But to delete all the posts he ever wrote is something I cannot understand. You just throw away a lot of valuable knowledge and wisdom. That itself proves foolishness in my opinion.
If you decide to ban a person that is one thing. But to delete all the posts he ever wrote is something I cannot understand. You just throw away a lot of valuable knowledge and wisdom. That itself proves foolishness in my opinion.
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Free Genghis The Engineer!
What a mysterious world we live in
I appreciate that there is something that we don't know but, as a reader, to me his posts have seemed generally constructive.
Just out of interest, do we assume that he is not the ex BMA man?
I appreciate that there is something that we don't know but, as a reader, to me his posts have seemed generally constructive.
Just out of interest, do we assume that he is not the ex BMA man?
Last edited by funfly; 17th Sep 2012 at 10:04.
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Second that. Without knowing him personally, Genghis' posts were always quite enlightening, well substantiated, and in a friendly yet professional tone. Having no precise idea about the misconduct or misunderstanding going on, I cannot make any judgement whether a ban is appropriate or not, but I really fail to see any point in deleting all his posts and the knowledge contained therein.
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Spot on Dublinpilot.
I am not criticising either - I know too little of the situation to do so.
But, as a long term reader, I have gained much from Genghis' posts and would like to gain more.
They do not only go in sympathy - but by default when GTE's posts were deleted. The loss is not only for the future but has erased a body of knowledge that already existed and was available to all of us from a number of contributors .
I also agree that GTE should not lose his anonymity just because he is deemed to have "transgressed".
I am not criticising either - I know too little of the situation to do so.
But, as a long term reader, I have gained much from Genghis' posts and would like to gain more.
From the postings on the other thread, it looks like if GTE goes some of the other major contributors also go in sympathy.
I also agree that GTE should not lose his anonymity just because he is deemed to have "transgressed".
Moderator
Yup, I add my voice to these with vigour. If Genghis crossed a line, I have to hope there are ways of managing that without it appearing that he never existed at all. Further to that, the loss of all those valuable posts associated with his threads. Genghis', and those other posts, represent a huge investment into PPRuNe, which I hope PPRuNe values.
I try to contribute, and make PPRuNe better for others by posting generously. Many of my posts have been wiped out by this situation, and I'm unhappy to think that effort is gone.
Should I continue to invest my effort in posting anything more than one flippant liners?
I try to contribute, and make PPRuNe better for others by posting generously. Many of my posts have been wiped out by this situation, and I'm unhappy to think that effort is gone.
Should I continue to invest my effort in posting anything more than one flippant liners?
From Pprune Towers gaff on the banning thread, it was extremely easy to identify GTE's true identity which I find disturbing for a start.
Furthermore, there are trolls, spotters, troublemakers and journalists who frequent these forums but GTE is none of these. He has contributed hugely to numerous threads with an informed, professional and considered style and the forum will be all the poorer for his departure.
I, for one, will be deleting my profile if he is not re-instated. I fully realise that Towers et al will not care one jot if I leave but I find this heavy-handed moderation unacceptable. I have been a member of pprune for over ten years but I have never felt more strongly over a forum issue.
Furthermore, there are trolls, spotters, troublemakers and journalists who frequent these forums but GTE is none of these. He has contributed hugely to numerous threads with an informed, professional and considered style and the forum will be all the poorer for his departure.
I, for one, will be deleting my profile if he is not re-instated. I fully realise that Towers et al will not care one jot if I leave but I find this heavy-handed moderation unacceptable. I have been a member of pprune for over ten years but I have never felt more strongly over a forum issue.
Last edited by Megaton; 17th Sep 2012 at 10:49.
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I really fail to see any point in deleting all his posts and the knowledge contained therein.
The words 'shoot' and 'foot' come to mind....
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I support what dublinpilot says. There are a small number of people who do have expertise and experience that others (like me) are aspired by, and wish to learn from. Thats why I come here.
Of course, we cant take anything we read as gospel, the help and advice given on here has to be taken at face value - however what you get on PPRuNe is opinion, experience, lessons learnt, the things that happen in the real world, and sometimes contradiction to what 'the books say'. I have been flying for 7 years, but you can often learn more on here from people like Genghis and others, in an hour, than you could in a days company of an official flight instructor. Thats what makes this invaluable.
Removing Genghis' past posts (many thousands I recall) seems unnecessary. I hope the dispute with Genghis is resolved amicably, that his previous work is put back, that he can at least continue (if he wants to) in a contributor fashion (though I thought he was an excellent Mod), and the significant others dont depart what is generally an excellent forum.
Of course, we cant take anything we read as gospel, the help and advice given on here has to be taken at face value - however what you get on PPRuNe is opinion, experience, lessons learnt, the things that happen in the real world, and sometimes contradiction to what 'the books say'. I have been flying for 7 years, but you can often learn more on here from people like Genghis and others, in an hour, than you could in a days company of an official flight instructor. Thats what makes this invaluable.
Removing Genghis' past posts (many thousands I recall) seems unnecessary. I hope the dispute with Genghis is resolved amicably, that his previous work is put back, that he can at least continue (if he wants to) in a contributor fashion (though I thought he was an excellent Mod), and the significant others dont depart what is generally an excellent forum.
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While there is obviously a level of frustration at the seemingly blunt removal of someone who has been around for a while, whatever one might think emotionally, these boards are owned by a successful business in Internet Brands. One hopes they control their businesses properly and as they (or their appointed officers) have taken a decision to completely erase all input over many years from GTE, they must think there is a very good reason to do so.
However, I think it would be good customer relations to explain why this action was taken (in broad terms if necessary) so that other long term contributors can make their own minds up as to their continued involvement.
The final post from Prune Towers looks to have been written in a rush and is highly questionable in that it mentions the importance of anonymity whilst itself twice breaks such a convention.
However, I think it would be good customer relations to explain why this action was taken (in broad terms if necessary) so that other long term contributors can make their own minds up as to their continued involvement.
The final post from Prune Towers looks to have been written in a rush and is highly questionable in that it mentions the importance of anonymity whilst itself twice breaks such a convention.
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May I add my feelings to this too!
G is a true Gentleman with a wealth of knowledge and a man who is happy to help others with his invaluable contributions.
Frankly I find the explanations of things we do not know about or bigger pictures wearing thin.
Maybe PPRUNE should examine themselves and their methods as this removal of G can only be wrong.
I will also add that this site is becoming a place where you are afraid to speak your mind even in polite tones for fear of disapproval and retribution if you do! That cannot be right even if this is a privately owned site as there would be nothing here without the contributors! Free polite speech and views are what should be encouraged not crushed.
Pace
G is a true Gentleman with a wealth of knowledge and a man who is happy to help others with his invaluable contributions.
Frankly I find the explanations of things we do not know about or bigger pictures wearing thin.
Maybe PPRUNE should examine themselves and their methods as this removal of G can only be wrong.
I will also add that this site is becoming a place where you are afraid to speak your mind even in polite tones for fear of disapproval and retribution if you do! That cannot be right even if this is a privately owned site as there would be nothing here without the contributors! Free polite speech and views are what should be encouraged not crushed.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 17th Sep 2012 at 11:19.
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I doubt very much that his posts have been deleted. His account has been suspended pending what ever review is going in the background and I would imagine that has included the hiding of everything he has posted as part of the review.
PPrune is a bit of the wild wild west in internet forum terms and a lot of transgressions are allowed to be committed without heavy handed moderation. For GTE to have been pulled like this would indicated that this is a very major transgression and would suspect is probably the result of abuse of privilge as a moderator.
I would suggest waiting for the truth to be known before lambasting the forum operators and moderators.
PPrune is a bit of the wild wild west in internet forum terms and a lot of transgressions are allowed to be committed without heavy handed moderation. For GTE to have been pulled like this would indicated that this is a very major transgression and would suspect is probably the result of abuse of privilge as a moderator.
I would suggest waiting for the truth to be known before lambasting the forum operators and moderators.
Moderator
I would suggest waiting for the truth to be known before lambasting the forum operators and moderators
Well, except that I don't think that I'm entitled to the "truth", in what would appear to be an "internal" situation in a private organization - nor do I expect it will be offered to me.
The loss of a moderator is unfortunate, but really hardly affects the average member.
The loss of future contributions of a member is a loss to everyone.
The loss of the historical contributions of many, because of one person's action (no judgement made), is huge!
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I would suggest waiting for the truth to be known before lambasting the forum operators and moderators.
As long as we do get the truth then I am sure no one would complain.
Pace
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it may well be a feature of this BB software that when an account is suspended the users entire profile is taken off line. It certainly is on another forum that I moderate.
I am merely suggesting that we dont jump to conclusions. Clearly that is against the normal PPrune lynch mob spirit, but its worth a try....
I am merely suggesting that we dont jump to conclusions. Clearly that is against the normal PPrune lynch mob spirit, but its worth a try....
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The post of Pprune Towers is self explanatory,
16th Sep 2012, 21:02 #31 (permalink)
PPRuNe Towers
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It is sufficient to say that the value of Genghis's contributions has been appreciated.
However anyone who is a moderator has access to some very private information which we trust will never be abused or revealed. Confidentiality is a foremost priority with the forum. Some information can have far reaching consequences if disclosed, often beyond the appreciation of the person disclosing it. This is the way that the forum has operated with great success for over 16 years.
At this stage some important decisions are being made with regards what has happened and Ghengis is fully aware of everything that is happening and why. Hopefully at the very minimum Genghis will be able to return as a contributor.
Due to the sensitivity of the matter and out of respect for the previous work of Genghis the thread is now closed and is a matter of private discussion.
PPRuNe Towers
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
LeafSprung durch Technic
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 5,045
It is sufficient to say that the value of Genghis's contributions has been appreciated.
However anyone who is a moderator has access to some very private information which we trust will never be abused or revealed. Confidentiality is a foremost priority with the forum. Some information can have far reaching consequences if disclosed, often beyond the appreciation of the person disclosing it. This is the way that the forum has operated with great success for over 16 years.
At this stage some important decisions are being made with regards what has happened and Ghengis is fully aware of everything that is happening and why. Hopefully at the very minimum Genghis will be able to return as a contributor.
Due to the sensitivity of the matter and out of respect for the previous work of Genghis the thread is now closed and is a matter of private discussion.
