Microlight Down near Kincardine, Clackmannanshire
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Microlight Down near Kincardine, Clackmannanshire
BBC News - One dead after Clackmannan microlight crash
One person has died (no survivors). The picture on the Beeb appears to show it as G-MVSV which was a GEMINI FLASH IIA, but G-INFO says that was de-registered so I've probably got that wrong.
RIP
(image from news link)
One person has died (no survivors). The picture on the Beeb appears to show it as G-MVSV which was a GEMINI FLASH IIA, but G-INFO says that was de-registered so I've probably got that wrong.
RIP
(image from news link)
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Seems the gutter press have mastered G-Info 
Pilot dies as microlight falls 100m - Top stories - Scotsman.com
As Genghis said, could well have been the Permit test flight, seems to take the CAA a few weeks to update their online records from what I've seen of my own aircraft over the years.
UA
Pilot dies as microlight falls 100m - Top stories - Scotsman.com
As Genghis said, could well have been the Permit test flight, seems to take the CAA a few weeks to update their online records from what I've seen of my own aircraft over the years.
UA
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To be honest, I think that newspaper article is one of the most accurate and well researched articles I have seen.
Agreed. But surely it'd have to be registered in the first place before any flight can take place? According to G-INFO the site was updated at 20:55 yesterday, and so if the aircraft was registered yesterday I think that it would show up when searching today?
I have no knowledge but the permit could have bee just renewed, or the flight could have been for a permit renewal.
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Gasax, I think it is you who has jumped to conclusions. Wondering why an aircraft, which according to G-INFO is de-registered, was flying is not jumping to any conclusions it is simply wondering. I certainly haven't jumped to any conclusions but if there are any which you feel you might like me to jump to do let me know and I'll see what I can do. 
All The Nines... You seem to assume that nobody would take to the skies unless they had been trained, gained a licence and their aircraft was properly registered and in permit?
Of course the rules say you should do so, but not everyone obeys the rules in the big bad world.
Of course the rules say you should do so, but not everyone obeys the rules in the big bad world.
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AnglianAV8R, I don't assume such, just as I don't assume that everyone obeys the speed limits on the road just because the law says you should.
I was just trying to clarify a couple of points further up the thread, and questioning how it could be a permit test flight if it wasn't already registered. I think that any inspector would like to be fairly sure that an aircraft is registered before it is flown, otherwise any insurance certificate that the aircraft might hold would be invalid? I also think the BMAA would reject the permit application if they found the aircraft to be De-Registered, so surely it is something that is checked? I'm not trying to be clever here, just stating the way I interpret the law and how it would work. I don't personally have experience of gaining a permit to fly on a microlight, and so I'm sure someone here will be able to either confirm the above or else put me right.
I was just trying to clarify a couple of points further up the thread, and questioning how it could be a permit test flight if it wasn't already registered. I think that any inspector would like to be fairly sure that an aircraft is registered before it is flown, otherwise any insurance certificate that the aircraft might hold would be invalid? I also think the BMAA would reject the permit application if they found the aircraft to be De-Registered, so surely it is something that is checked? I'm not trying to be clever here, just stating the way I interpret the law and how it would work. I don't personally have experience of gaining a permit to fly on a microlight, and so I'm sure someone here will be able to either confirm the above or else put me right.
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As a complementary, illustrative post to Anglian's have a look at the video on this thread.
NB: for the benefit of those who need things to be spelled out for them in words of one syllable: I am NOT saying or implying that this is what happened in this case.
NB: for the benefit of those who need things to be spelled out for them in words of one syllable: I am NOT saying or implying that this is what happened in this case.
All The Nines... fair comment. The BMAA permit check flight needs to be done by a BMAA Check Pilot, who could be the inspector but doesn't have to be, I believe. I'm not sure whether the Inspector needs to validate the registration of the aircraft to the owner, but the owner would need to be a BMAA member. Much the same with LAA permit machines, except the owner can do the check flight, subject to having sufficient hours on type or similar.
Time will tell, but there are reports indicating that the pilot was advised to take lessons, but didn't. 'nuf said.
DX.....
Brilliant entertainment and certain darwin award category on that video.
Time will tell, but there are reports indicating that the pilot was advised to take lessons, but didn't. 'nuf said.
DX.....
Brilliant entertainment and certain darwin award category on that video.
Could I remind everybody that somebody died here. The reasons for this have yet to be determined, but they ultimately will not be about the paperwork, they'll be about the aeroplane and the pilot. So, whilst of interest, the status of the registration, PtF and the PiC's licence(s) are not what actually caused the accident. That was something physical - perhaps weather, perhaps how it was flown, perhaps a physical failure. But it wasn't the paperwork.
Having said that, yes I believe it's entirely possible either that it had been re-registered but G-INFO hadn't been updated: the lag is generally a few weeks, or that the owner intended to use the permit renewal to get the aeroplane re-registered. If this was a check flight, then the check pilot was insured by the BMAA; if it was a private flight shortly afterwards then potentially the insurance had just been renewed on the phone. All quite legal.
Or it was an illegal flight, of a de-registered aeroplane with no current Permit to Fly. That also fits what we know at the moment.
But again, the paperwork did not cause the accident.
Flexwings, like any other aeroplane, bite if stuff goes wrong. That tragically happened here. So far as I know, nobody knows enough right now to piece the reasons together, but I'm sure this will come together shortly. The photograph indicates a near vertical collision with an intact aeroplane. That could be a low level stall, a tumble, or a cable failure. Or something else.
The type, a Gemini F2a had an inglorious early history and quite a few fatal accidents due to loss of control. However it has been perfectly safe over the last decade and more since various modifications were mandated. It is however known to have a wing that is intolerant of not being correctly set and maintained. I've no doubt that somebody's already told AAIB about that.
G
Having said that, yes I believe it's entirely possible either that it had been re-registered but G-INFO hadn't been updated: the lag is generally a few weeks, or that the owner intended to use the permit renewal to get the aeroplane re-registered. If this was a check flight, then the check pilot was insured by the BMAA; if it was a private flight shortly afterwards then potentially the insurance had just been renewed on the phone. All quite legal.
Or it was an illegal flight, of a de-registered aeroplane with no current Permit to Fly. That also fits what we know at the moment.
But again, the paperwork did not cause the accident.
Flexwings, like any other aeroplane, bite if stuff goes wrong. That tragically happened here. So far as I know, nobody knows enough right now to piece the reasons together, but I'm sure this will come together shortly. The photograph indicates a near vertical collision with an intact aeroplane. That could be a low level stall, a tumble, or a cable failure. Or something else.
The type, a Gemini F2a had an inglorious early history and quite a few fatal accidents due to loss of control. However it has been perfectly safe over the last decade and more since various modifications were mandated. It is however known to have a wing that is intolerant of not being correctly set and maintained. I've no doubt that somebody's already told AAIB about that.
G
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I believe it's entirely possible either that it had been re-registered but G-INFO hadn't been updated:
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I know a couple of folk that have scared themselves ****less on flex wings after a purchase on ebay.
They were all rather qualified in flying terms. And they were all legal for jumping in and having a go solo.
But this whole thing of power on the foot, push to flare instead of pull and no rudder really is a recipey for a change of pants and multiple approaches and your bag of luck getting emptied.
Another one which was hilarious to watch was someone that had bought one of those para gliders and then strap a big fan on your back. Eventually it ran out of fuel and landed with a fence post stopping his forward velocity middle wicket. As one of the others said if you had aimed to hit it you would always miss.
They were all rather qualified in flying terms. And they were all legal for jumping in and having a go solo.
But this whole thing of power on the foot, push to flare instead of pull and no rudder really is a recipey for a change of pants and multiple approaches and your bag of luck getting emptied.
Another one which was hilarious to watch was someone that had bought one of those para gliders and then strap a big fan on your back. Eventually it ran out of fuel and landed with a fence post stopping his forward velocity middle wicket. As one of the others said if you had aimed to hit it you would always miss.
They were all rather qualified in flying terms. And they were all legal for jumping in and having a go solo.
But this whole thing of power on the foot, push to flare instead of pull and no rudder really is a recipey for a change of pants and multiple approaches and your bag of luck getting emptied.
But this whole thing of power on the foot, push to flare instead of pull and no rudder really is a recipey for a change of pants and multiple approaches and your bag of luck getting emptied.
Personally I have no trouble jumping between the flexwings and light aeroplanes, any more than I do between a car and a bicycle; I find them so different there's no real issue. But I did get properly trained for each, not try and make it up as I went along. There is nothing intuitive about either if you've not done it before, and the first half dozen hours I had in a flexwing regularly scared the willies out of me.
Now however, I actually find jumping between 3-axis microlights and light aeroplanes more difficult and potentially dangerous, because the controls are basically the same, but all of the speeds and attitudes are quite different.
G
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Must admit I did have the offer to have a shot which i declined.
I just had to look at the collection of tent poles with a bath slung under to know that it would be twentys mins of saying "oh fcuk" every thirty seconds and a safe arrival wasn't a cert. And after seeing a engine failure in one on youtube they just don't glide.
They do look very good fun though and once I find one I can fit my arse into after suitable instuction its on my list of things to do.
I just had to look at the collection of tent poles with a bath slung under to know that it would be twentys mins of saying "oh fcuk" every thirty seconds and a safe arrival wasn't a cert. And after seeing a engine failure in one on youtube they just don't glide.
They do look very good fun though and once I find one I can fit my arse into after suitable instuction its on my list of things to do.
