Krallu

How do you log this according to EASA.

You takeoff as a passenger just relaxing.
Whiel airborne you together with PIC decide that you could train in this aircraft because the PIC is an instructor.

You gets the control and you fly for X minutes as a student. This time you should be able to log as Dual time.

After this you decide together to be a passenger again and just relaxing.

This means you would log some dual time in the aircraft with 0 landings.
But what do you write in the block off and block on time boxes?
According to the logbook there should be the block off and block off times, but during this flight you did not fly from block-block only part of the flight airborne.

Totalt time of flight must be the same period of time as dual.

Should you enter the airports but the time for the period of time you were dual?

Or any suggestions on logging only part of a flight.

Krallu

Ok I followed your link but nowhere in that topic do they discuss logging only a part of a flight.

For example. You depart 10:00 and land 12:00. You fly as a passenger all the time except for 11 to 11:30 where you are flying as a student pilot.

How do you log this?

Do you write 10:00 - 12:00 in the logbook but on total time of flight only 0,5 ?
Or do you enter the time as 11-11:30 but with the departure and destination airports?

Do you enter blank departure and destination and only the time 11-11:30?

Or how do you log that?

TheOddOne

As an instructor, I'm struggling to understand what was happening during this flight. If you're recording a flight as Pu/t or dual, it is either as a part of a course for the initial issue of a licence, or the addition of another rating, or for the revalidation or renewal of a rating. In any case, you would have been briefed by your instructor prior to the departure and would either have observed, 'followed through' or actually conducted the take-off and landing. Thus the entire flight should be recorded as dual by yourself and PIC by the instructor. I really don't see how you can be adequately briefed for a meaningful training session part-way through a flight as a passenger.

TOO

S-Works

Another ruse to log a few ghost hours.

dublinpilot

I don't see the problem. They got instruction. Sure it wasn't planned in advance, but they could have discussed what they were going to do, inflight, before the instruction started.

The pilot needs to log the time under instruction (it's a legal requirement to do so).
As it's a real flight, rather than a routine training flight, a lot of useful stuff can be learnt that wouldn't normally experience. (eg a pilot figuring their way around on an airport that they aren't familiar with....instructors are very familiar with the airports that they bring students to). If the pilot is tracking a VOR, there is no reason to leave that on the autopilot. Might as well give it to the student, and give them some lessons in how to do it properly.

I'd log the actual take off and landing times (no point in making up ones) but for the duration, I'd only long the amount of time actually under instruction.

Gertrude the Wombat

Yes well, the time a charter pilot threw the control column across and let me fly a Beaver, I didn't ask him if he was an instructor and I didn't write anything in my log book.

Whopity

You follow the requirements established by your National Authority

Just because there is a box, does not mean there is any requirement to use it!

In your example, I would suggest you were a passenger throughout!

fujii

If you were flying a Stearman solo from England to Australia but had an instructor in the front seat, how would you log it?

9 lives

If, during a flight of this arrangement, the PIC unexpectedly "trains" another person aboard, neither of them should log the flight, as it was just too poorly planned, and it's embarrassing!

Formal preplanned training can be conducted with suitably paired instructor and candidate, and those flights can be logged according to the rules. A pilot can fly as a passenger. If circumstances result in that non PIC pilot flying the plane for a while, they are not entitled to log it at all - it was not training in that context. It could still be good experience though, so value it for that alone!

mikehallam

Unless I've missed the subtleties.

FWIW.
Where two pilots informally share the flying, say a portion i/c each ? i.e. "You have control"
I've always on those few occasions simply logged my bit as P1 and the other portion as pax.

mike hallam

flydive1

If that is the case, why would he not log the entire flight?

Krallu

Ok more details to the situation.

I was travelling in a new aircraft type I havent flown before.
First it wasnt planned to be a training session but after takeoff we decided we might as well do some training anyway when we got the time.

This is the same situation as you fly two rated pilots and one person is flying the first half and the second one flies the second half.

It is also the same situation where you have two sets of crew members on board a commercial airliner. During the flight they switch crew members and the first ones go to bed or sit down to sleep. How do they log this? They are only flying 50% of the flight and 50% of the flight you are for example sleeping.

It must be the same problem. What do you put in the block boxes for such a flight?

flydive1

On your example above I would suggest you write:

Departure and arrival airports.
Write the departure time (10:00) and landing time (12:00)
Log only the time you were at the controls (0.5)
Make a note in remarks.

FullWings

What he said ^^^^

It depends which aviation authority your are operating under. In the UK (EASA) the nominated commander logs all the flight time as P1 and relief pilots log time in the seat. As far as FTLs go, the whole flight time counts for everybody.

For your logbook, if a rated instructor is happy that he was instructing you, then enter it. You can put anything you like in there as long as both of you are not trying to claim the same thing at the same time.

Krallu

Yes I think I will use the method flydive1 is suggesting. Then I am not violating any rules, I am using all the boxes correctly and I have written a remark if anyone is in doubt about what happened.

That sounds fair and probably the best way to handle it.

Thanks all for all information and suggestions on this matter.

Flyingmac

I don't know why you're asking us, and not the Instructor.

Parson

I would just log the times that you were under instruction and add an explanation in the remarks column.

S-Works

So basically and Instructor let you handle the controls of a type he was flying that you had no flown before so you wanted to claim some time in your logbook........ God help us....

flydive1

Well, my first flight hour was kind of like that

9 lives

Just to keep things in balance, if more than one pilot is to act in a piloting capacity during a flight, that should be briefed before the flight begins. If such a briefing has not been conducted by the PIC, it is reasonable to think that pilot is not expecting to share the duties of the flight, nor the logging of time.

So thinking to "jump in" for some impromptu instruction should seem to any pilot as unusual, and perhaps unwelcome.

If a mentoring pilot wants to let you fly a while, how nice, accept the offer. But focus on the value of that as some familiarization for you rather than padding your logbook with a fraction of a flight.