Glider Crash at Ashbourne

[P-MONKE]

Safe winch launching

For gliders (sailplanes), the BGA has implemented a "Safe Winch Launching Initiative" and publishes regularly updated guidelines. If these are followed then there should never be a time on a winch launch where a safe recovery from a cable break or winch failure is not possible.

Don't you guys have something similar for your aircraft? It strike me as insane that it seems to be accepted that a "dangerous" or "critical" phase of the launch, with few options for recovery, exists.

[astir 8]

Thanks guys - having watched a couple of lockout incidents on You Tube I think I understand the mechanism now. It appears to result from the winch cable being attached a long way below the wing (i.e. to the pilot) and if the wing goes divergent the sideways pull on the pilot then causes the situation to rapidly worsen. Parasails are presumably worse than flexwing hang gliders because of the pilot being even further from the wing.

Note to self:- stick to sailplanes

[abgd]

Don't you guys have something similar for your aircraft? It strike me as insane that it seems to be accepted that a "dangerous" or "critical" phase of the launch, with few options for recovery, exists. 1st Nov 2011 23:49

When I used to do static towing, we were always very careful to keep the nose low until you had a safe altitude for a stall recovery, after which you could push the bar full out and zoom up to a few thousand feet at a stupendous rate and angle of climb. I don't think that any aspect of this launch sequence is unrecoverable.

In some ways, aerotowing should be safer - I have never done it, but wouldn't have expected that pilots would ever need such high climb angles as we used for static-towing. However, gusts of wind, pilot induced oscillations or other factors could cause less experienced pilots to get into unrecoverable situations if they weren't picked up on in time. Even then, the tug operator should be able to release the tow cable (as can the pilot).

One very significant difference between hang-gliding and most other forms of flight, is that 99% of the training is carried out solo. Although dual flights are possible, and useful for things like stall appreciation, on a hang glider you're PIC from the first flight - which will be a very short, straight one. However, inevitably every pilot is 'tested' sooner or later by something unexpected coming up, and that test is also generally experienced whilst flying solo.

I did see two static-tow accidents where student pilots froze and stalled out at altitudes of perhaps 30 and 60 feet, without much injury. I was fairly amazed by the second accident, as I initially thought that it didn't look survivable and the glider was wrecked. Both pilots quit immediately afterwards.

[abgd]

You're right, we used a winch. I'd just assumed static towing was another term. Hadn't appreciated that people would stick a peg in the ground. Eugh.

We did do some work on hilltops with short tethers and about 3 helpers.

[Parapunter]

I must take my share of the blame there. Static towing is indeed a different thing from winch towing & Was banned by the BHPA years ago, folliowing a spate of accidents - all lockouts!

To answer P Monke's question, there are strict rules around towing in the hang & paragliding world - in the UK at least. Tow operators have to be trained & endorsed. Pilots can't just rock up & start towing, they have to take a course in towing too.

Winch lines have v-bridles & weak links for saftey, but as with any regime in flight, there is always scope for pilot or equipment failure. I think the consensus over the towing argument is that each individual situiation will work on it's own merits & whilst any fatal accident is abhorrent, they remain, thankfully a rarity, but there are probably no stock answers on tow failures per se - only guideline procedures for a given scenario. Every PIC is just that - in control and thus responsible for their own actions.

[P-MONKE]

Thanks for the clear up Para. -

I'm glad that the guidelines exist for towed launches.

I also confess to not having fully understood the "uniqueness" of static launches: Now I realise that it basically consists of being the business end of a kite, I can appreciate how things can get out of shape (lockout) in very short time.

[TURIN]

One very significant difference between hang-gliding and most other forms of flight, is that 99% of the training is carried out solo. Although dual flights are possible, and useful for things like stall appreciation, on a hang glider you're PIC from the first flight - which will be a very short, straight one. However, inevitably every pilot is 'tested' sooner or later by something unexpected coming up, and that test is also generally experienced whilst flying solo.

That was certainly the case 20 or 30 years ago.

It's changed a lot.

These days students are taken up dual/tandem flights with an instructor and when at altitude given the chance to get a feel for the glider.

When I learned (mid 80s) it was all solo stuff at very low altitude. Winching was in it's infancy and aerotowing was just a dream.


I did my winching endorsement at Darley Moore in the early 90s (Different organisation to the current owners) and attempted my aerotowing much later. It didn't go well. My own fault I freely admit. Pilot induced oscillations followed by a nasty landing.

The problem in this country is the type of aircraft used as a tug. Flexwing microlights take off at a much higher speed than a HG. Not good.

The cousins across the pond use better aircraft, slow and perfect for aerotowing. Unfortunately they do not have a UK CofA and consequently are banned. It flies under the experimental code I think. Wallaby Ranch in Florida who use(d) the Dragonfly boasts (or did) an enviable safety record.

The Campaign Against Aviation strikes again I'm afraid.

Very sad, a young woman with everything to live for. Bureaucracy strikes again.

[frontlefthamster]

So, unless I misunderstand...

TURIN,

Your point is that if the appropriate aircraft cannot be used, the correct course of action is to continue operating but with inappropriate aircraft, hoping for the best..?

The regulator is there to set minimum standards. If your preferred operation doesn't meet those standards, then...

Please explain.

[TURIN]

Yes, you did misunderstand.

(Apology for opening an old thread, I was a bit bored)

[frontlefthamster]

Well, you reopened the thread. And you posted.

But you didn't explain.

Because you ranted about not being able to use certain aircraft, but you seemed to condone launching with less suitable alternatives. If the tool doesn't fit the job, don't use it, and if the job then doesn't get done, then tough, would be my take.

Go on then, explain...