Recording Flight with N Flightcam
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Recording Flight with N Flightcam
I am thinking about investing in a decent cam for use in flight that will give great video annd audio results. I will admit I am a bit taken in by gagets in general terms but I think that the ability to record flight and audio to a high standard will be excellent in the sense that I can essentially bulid a video diary of all my flights and destinations to look back on later.
This for me has two appeals-
1)ability to re-live some of the fantastic scenery or specific challenges I have had to deal with
2) Could function as an excellent training aid for myself and or others not to mention the ability to learn from any imperfections.
Well enough of that...... I basically created this thread with two purposes.
1) To get a feel for how many people do record their flights and to ascertain how much success they have with this.
and
2) Does anyone currently own or have seen the N Flightcam (available from Transair website) in action? If so I would be greatful for any feedback. I understand this device is quite expensive, but in context with the price of flying I reckon It may be a worthwhile investment.
Any Thoughts ....
This for me has two appeals-
1)ability to re-live some of the fantastic scenery or specific challenges I have had to deal with
2) Could function as an excellent training aid for myself and or others not to mention the ability to learn from any imperfections.
Well enough of that...... I basically created this thread with two purposes.
1) To get a feel for how many people do record their flights and to ascertain how much success they have with this.
and
2) Does anyone currently own or have seen the N Flightcam (available from Transair website) in action? If so I would be greatful for any feedback. I understand this device is quite expensive, but in context with the price of flying I reckon It may be a worthwhile investment.
Any Thoughts ....
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7of 9 (Trev) videos a lot of his flights, not sure what gear he uses but he gets good results. I'm sure he'll be along to give you some advice.
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in flight video
Check out the GoPro video camera. It does HD, records to an SD card and can capture cockpit sound. To tap the camera directly into the audio/radio/intercom would take a little more work but shouldnt be too hard. You can also "double record", meaning you can capture the audio with a separate and very cheap mp3 recorder. Before engine start, clap your hands together with the intercom microphone open so that the camera and the digital recorder capture the sound at the same time. Also, try to clap where the camera can see your hands come together. Then sync up the audio and video tracks in an NLE video program. Camera is about $300US, a digital recorder about $50-70US. Piece of cake.
The beauty of the GoPro is the quality of its video for its size. Its actually smaller than a pack of cigarettes and its extremely light. Consequently, it can be mounted almost anywhere. A lot of reality shows on TV these days use them. I've mounted them in aircraft, cars, etc. This is a technology that didnt exist until very recently.
The beauty of the GoPro is the quality of its video for its size. Its actually smaller than a pack of cigarettes and its extremely light. Consequently, it can be mounted almost anywhere. A lot of reality shows on TV these days use them. I've mounted them in aircraft, cars, etc. This is a technology that didnt exist until very recently.
As Dave (thing) said HERE I am
I use this;
Nflightcam Cockpit HD GPS Video System
Brilliant piece of kit, but you will also need this to mount it on;
SUCTION CUP RAM MOUNT FOR NFLIGHTCAM
I have just finished & passed my IMC Course & used this as a training & analysing tool for me & my Instructor to view afterwards as I was wearing Foggles for most of the Flying doing ILS approaches & couldn't "see" what was going on outside, this showed me & also gave me a good GPS Trace to see my track down to runway before i removed the Foggles. The RT & incockpit talking was also a good thing to hear too.
Here are some of the films I took recently using this equipment;
This was the last ILS i did before passing my skills test;
This was when i was on Holiday in USA & took it for a ride.
Hope this helps.
Trev
I use this;
Nflightcam Cockpit HD GPS Video System
Brilliant piece of kit, but you will also need this to mount it on;
SUCTION CUP RAM MOUNT FOR NFLIGHTCAM
I have just finished & passed my IMC Course & used this as a training & analysing tool for me & my Instructor to view afterwards as I was wearing Foggles for most of the Flying doing ILS approaches & couldn't "see" what was going on outside, this showed me & also gave me a good GPS Trace to see my track down to runway before i removed the Foggles. The RT & incockpit talking was also a good thing to hear too.
Here are some of the films I took recently using this equipment;
This was the last ILS i did before passing my skills test;
This was when i was on Holiday in USA & took it for a ride.
Hope this helps.
Trev
Another Film just remembered i had;
Flight from Springfield Illinois KSPI in a Cessna 172 while i was on holiday. This shows the difference to our RT & USA RT, Thinks some of it where we both trip up is Accent differences & Procedures, Also tried to upload in HD;
Trev
Flight from Springfield Illinois KSPI in a Cessna 172 while i was on holiday. This shows the difference to our RT & USA RT, Thinks some of it where we both trip up is Accent differences & Procedures, Also tried to upload in HD;
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We at Wildcat did quite a lot of research and looked at GoPro, Contour, NFlight before we finally chose Drift in mid July '11.
Have a look at the quality of our vids on the website and the Blog page about the video camera selection process. It also tells you where to get them from. We are delighted with the audio and video output.
Aerobatic Display Team | Wildcat Aerobatics
Stik
Have a look at the quality of our vids on the website and the Blog page about the video camera selection process. It also tells you where to get them from. We are delighted with the audio and video output.
Aerobatic Display Team | Wildcat Aerobatics
Stik
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Thanks 7 0f 9 for your vids, i will check these once i get off this ship I am currently on (internet bandwidth is crappy!)
Thanks to everyone else for their input, and keep the reviews/ideas coming
Cheers
Thanks to everyone else for their input, and keep the reviews/ideas coming
Cheers
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You need to do a whole lot more work to get videos of a generally acceptable quality.
These miniature cameras all suffer from a ultra fast shutter which creates the weird prop effects. I've got through several of them.
One can alleviate the artefacts a bit with a neutral density filter, which slows down the shutter, but really one needs to use a camera with a manual shutter control, like the semi-pro camcorders have.
I am now using a Canon Legria G10 and with a 1/120 (or slower) shutter the result is really good. But obviously this costs more money.
Vibration is also an issue. It blurs the image. One needs to make an anti-vibration mount. People doing this seriously use special vibration absorbing bushes like these to make up a camera mount. They are cheap enough but hard to get in the UK; I have ordered some from the USA.
Here are some suction mounts.
These miniature cameras all suffer from a ultra fast shutter which creates the weird prop effects. I've got through several of them.
One can alleviate the artefacts a bit with a neutral density filter, which slows down the shutter, but really one needs to use a camera with a manual shutter control, like the semi-pro camcorders have.
I am now using a Canon Legria G10 and with a 1/120 (or slower) shutter the result is really good. But obviously this costs more money.
Vibration is also an issue. It blurs the image. One needs to make an anti-vibration mount. People doing this seriously use special vibration absorbing bushes like these to make up a camera mount. They are cheap enough but hard to get in the UK; I have ordered some from the USA.
Here are some suction mounts.
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When I was training towards my PPL my instructor used the NFlightCam - initially I was really impressed with the quality. The only problem he found was that after about 3 months the camera started to corrupt files willy nilly! The camera was being used quite heavily I should point out though, so maybe this is a unfair review.
I use a GoPro Hero 960p - the slightly cheaper version of the full HD one. The quality is great and I always wear it attached to the head strap. The only problem I've found with the Hero is that it struggles to adjust from constant variations of light. If it has focussed out the window it takes a good 4-5 seconds to adjust to a cockpit when focused upon. Saying that I love it to bits!
I use a GoPro Hero 960p - the slightly cheaper version of the full HD one. The quality is great and I always wear it attached to the head strap. The only problem I've found with the Hero is that it struggles to adjust from constant variations of light. If it has focussed out the window it takes a good 4-5 seconds to adjust to a cockpit when focused upon. Saying that I love it to bits!
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These miniature cameras all suffer from a ultra fast shutter which creates the weird prop effects.
Vibration is also an issue. It blurs the image. One needs to make an anti-vibration mount. People doing this seriously use special vibration absorbing bushes like these to make up a camera mount. They are cheap enough but hard to get in the UK; I have ordered some from the USA.
I have flown with a bullet cam since passing my PPL and it is quite useful to look back on flights. I did post a couple videos in the personal flying vids section but looking at them now they are pretty boring! In fact it's slightly frightening looking back at how low some of my approaches used to be!
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On a small technical note, it isn't the shutter speed that's at issue(*) The 'venitian blind' effect is a side effect of the way the sensor chip is read - it's known as rolling shutter:
CMOS type chips are read 'line at a time', in a a similar manner to the way a TV scans. So, for example, the top line is read, then a infinitesimal amount of time later, the second, third, etc., until the bottom is reached, then it wraps back to the top. Thus the bottom of the frame is captured some amount of time later than the top. If you pan rapidly sideways you may see a skew effect, vibration creates 'jelly wobbles', and props make venetian blinds because they're moving significantly in that scan time.
CCD chips are read differently - they have a 'global shutter'. The chip is switched on, then off, then read whilst off. As such, every pixel in the image is captured at the same time. This will stop the prop when the revolution is divides equally to the shutter frequency (usually about 30 frames per second), and make it turn forward/backward either side of that - a stroboscopic effect if you like. However it will not produce image distortion.
Personally I find the CCD effect far less intrusive. Sadly most video specific cameras are CMOS based these days.
(*) of course, if you slow the exposure down enough for the prop to move significantly during the time the shutter is 'open', the prop will blur, and neither of these effects will show...
CMOS type chips are read 'line at a time', in a a similar manner to the way a TV scans. So, for example, the top line is read, then a infinitesimal amount of time later, the second, third, etc., until the bottom is reached, then it wraps back to the top. Thus the bottom of the frame is captured some amount of time later than the top. If you pan rapidly sideways you may see a skew effect, vibration creates 'jelly wobbles', and props make venetian blinds because they're moving significantly in that scan time.
CCD chips are read differently - they have a 'global shutter'. The chip is switched on, then off, then read whilst off. As such, every pixel in the image is captured at the same time. This will stop the prop when the revolution is divides equally to the shutter frequency (usually about 30 frames per second), and make it turn forward/backward either side of that - a stroboscopic effect if you like. However it will not produce image distortion.
Personally I find the CCD effect far less intrusive. Sadly most video specific cameras are CMOS based these days.
(*) of course, if you slow the exposure down enough for the prop to move significantly during the time the shutter is 'open', the prop will blur, and neither of these effects will show...
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There is more to it, but I don't know the answer 
My G10 camcorder has a "CMOS" sensor but has manually selectable shutter-priority shutter speeds, from something like 1/1000, through 1/120 (the fastest which eliminates prop effects), down to some very low figures. Yet it certainly doesn't have a mechanical shutter; it is totally electronic.
The bullet cameras suffer the ghastly prop effects because their shutter speed is extremely high - of the order of 1/5000 in bright light.
My G10 camcorder has a "CMOS" sensor but has manually selectable shutter-priority shutter speeds, from something like 1/1000, through 1/120 (the fastest which eliminates prop effects), down to some very low figures. Yet it certainly doesn't have a mechanical shutter; it is totally electronic.
The bullet cameras suffer the ghastly prop effects because their shutter speed is extremely high - of the order of 1/5000 in bright light.
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Neat little video:
[fixed embedding - thanks]
No modern video camera has a physical / mechanical shutter - it's all achieved by switching of photosites etc. The physical layout is that the CCD construction allows for 'buffer' sites alongside the photo sites. Logically speaking, the chip is activated, then switched off, and the results buffered, then the read/conversion process to get the data off the chip takes place.
Now, I oversimplified the rolling shutter a bit in my earlier post - I'm obviously not going to get away with that.. so:
The actual CMOS capture process is: row is reset, row is 'activated', <pause to capture>, row deactivated, row read off. My understanding is that each process 'scans' down the chip. So, if you have a slow shutter speed, the 'activate' scan will have reached the bottom before the 'deactivate/read' scan starts at the top. If the shutter speed is fast the activate scan is 'chased' down the chip by the deactivate, the collection phase is shorter than the scan, so the scan part is very significant wrt to the overall exposure.
In the first case, skew/wobble will be minimised, in the second maximised. However, the issue is also significantly affected by the speed at which the scan progresses. That is down to the sheer amount of data to be read (more megapixels=bad), and the rate at which the scan can proceed (basically quality of the circuitry).
Given the basics of exposure, I see no reason why a bullet cam would be running a faster shutter speed than a 'proper' camera, in fact quite the opposite (but I will admit that is an opinion on my part, if a somewhat educated one). Also in my opinion, the likely reason why cheap bullet cams skew badly is because they aren't running expensive to make, highly optimised sensor chips, the 'scan' process is slower, skew is greater..
To which: Why CMOS? CCD chips require a lot of ancilliary circuitry and power to drive them, and process the signals. CMOS chips allow you to build it all on one die, integrate the processing, and require less power. Economy, plain and simple..
[fixed embedding - thanks]
No modern video camera has a physical / mechanical shutter - it's all achieved by switching of photosites etc. The physical layout is that the CCD construction allows for 'buffer' sites alongside the photo sites. Logically speaking, the chip is activated, then switched off, and the results buffered, then the read/conversion process to get the data off the chip takes place.
Now, I oversimplified the rolling shutter a bit in my earlier post - I'm obviously not going to get away with that.. so:
The actual CMOS capture process is: row is reset, row is 'activated', <pause to capture>, row deactivated, row read off. My understanding is that each process 'scans' down the chip. So, if you have a slow shutter speed, the 'activate' scan will have reached the bottom before the 'deactivate/read' scan starts at the top. If the shutter speed is fast the activate scan is 'chased' down the chip by the deactivate, the collection phase is shorter than the scan, so the scan part is very significant wrt to the overall exposure.
In the first case, skew/wobble will be minimised, in the second maximised. However, the issue is also significantly affected by the speed at which the scan progresses. That is down to the sheer amount of data to be read (more megapixels=bad), and the rate at which the scan can proceed (basically quality of the circuitry).
Given the basics of exposure, I see no reason why a bullet cam would be running a faster shutter speed than a 'proper' camera, in fact quite the opposite (but I will admit that is an opinion on my part, if a somewhat educated one). Also in my opinion, the likely reason why cheap bullet cams skew badly is because they aren't running expensive to make, highly optimised sensor chips, the 'scan' process is slower, skew is greater..
To which: Why CMOS? CCD chips require a lot of ancilliary circuitry and power to drive them, and process the signals. CMOS chips allow you to build it all on one die, integrate the processing, and require less power. Economy, plain and simple..
Last edited by Mark1234; 8th Aug 2011 at 22:37.
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[er, ok.. what did I do wrong with the embedding?]
Apparently Panasonic is working on a global shutter 4/3 (CMOS?) camera. That should get rid of the jello/skew problem:
43 Rumors | Blog | (FT3) GH3 with global shutter? (+ more rumor tidbits)
Last edited by It flies; 8th Aug 2011 at 18:09. Reason: Typo
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You don't need a global shutter to get rid of the prop totally.
I can upload a video showing the G10 at 1/120 and it is perfect.
Got the last of the "95% bollox" JAA-crap IR exams tomorrow so won't do it tonight (need to edit away some irrelevant stuff which makes it very long).
Global shutters are desirable for different purposes, where you have object motion relative to the camera and you are trying to avoid artefacts on the moving object while showing the moving object. To get rid of the prop in flying videos, you just need a slow shutter speed, which means you need a camera which has a means of selecting that. You are not trying to show the prop at all.
I can upload a video showing the G10 at 1/120 and it is perfect.
Got the last of the "95% bollox" JAA-crap IR exams tomorrow so won't do it tonight (need to edit away some irrelevant stuff which makes it very long).
Global shutters are desirable for different purposes, where you have object motion relative to the camera and you are trying to avoid artefacts on the moving object while showing the moving object. To get rid of the prop in flying videos, you just need a slow shutter speed, which means you need a camera which has a means of selecting that. You are not trying to show the prop at all.
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I've mastered embedding YT content!
Thanks to It Flies!!
Vid from Drift HD170 Stealth - 2 cams attached to different parts of the airframes.
We are delighted with these little cameras and they come with a variety of mounts that are easy to adapt to mounting onto the Pitts Special.
Enjoy
Vid from Drift HD170 Stealth - 2 cams attached to different parts of the airframes.
We are delighted with these little cameras and they come with a variety of mounts that are easy to adapt to mounting onto the Pitts Special.
Enjoy
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The basic quality is good, no doubt helpted by not shooting through any windoze
But are you happy with the fisheye-like distortion?
I have just edited a little clip and put it here (5MB, Iphone4 1mbit/sec MP4).
FWIW, Vimeo is far better than Youtube. YT is difficult for uploading large files; it tends to crash during the upload.
But are you happy with the fisheye-like distortion?
I have just edited a little clip and put it here (5MB, Iphone4 1mbit/sec MP4).
FWIW, Vimeo is far better than Youtube. YT is difficult for uploading large files; it tends to crash during the upload.
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Of course you can eliminate the prop - as I agreed earlier. However, that has it's own cost; it probably doesn't eliminate jello wobble from vibration (evident in the wildcats footage), or if it does, it will be at the expense of blurring the image. You can either capture motion (not that anyone really wants the prop), and put up with the artefacts, or blur out all the motion.
Personally I find that whole family of artefacts extremely irritating, but maybe that's the photo/video nerd in me. There's also the point that shutter priority video is a pretty high end feature. End of the day, you pay your money and take your choice.. I wanted a global shutter on my compact still/video camera.
Completely agree wrt vimeo.
Personally I find that whole family of artefacts extremely irritating, but maybe that's the photo/video nerd in me. There's also the point that shutter priority video is a pretty high end feature. End of the day, you pay your money and take your choice.. I wanted a global shutter on my compact still/video camera.
Completely agree wrt vimeo.
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Fish eye - the DRIFT cam has three settings, 720d gives you 170degs (fish eye) 1080d gives you 128degs and SD - and we've not tried that one yet as we're not sure what it gives!
We're still experimenting with settings and with cam positions but we do like the flexibility of mounts given we can and do pull and push +6g -3g :for more detail our web site has the gen on mounting them;
http://www.wildcaterobatics.com
We've just secured some professional video expertise to do ground to air so will know learn more in the next couple of weeks.
One of the flying comics is lying on the table and the back page ad shows Harry M punting the basic Nflight at £240 - that seems quite expensive
We're still experimenting with settings and with cam positions but we do like the flexibility of mounts given we can and do pull and push +6g -3g :for more detail our web site has the gen on mounting them;
http://www.wildcaterobatics.com
We've just secured some professional video expertise to do ground to air so will know learn more in the next couple of weeks.
One of the flying comics is lying on the table and the back page ad shows Harry M punting the basic Nflight at £240 - that seems quite expensive
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However, that has it's own cost; it probably doesn't eliminate jello wobble from vibration
I don't know what is the cheapest camera with shutter priority, but high-end prosumer camcorders go for a few hundred quid on Ebay, though most of them will be the DV tape models which can't record for more than an hour (on their own).