Is there anthing to be gained by using a flight simulator?

[powerstall]

For me it has helped in some way, like IFR practice and some procedures on certain types of aircrafts. But it's a cheap way to do some ifr.

and the most important thing, it has taught me how not to land an aircraft.

[Pace]

We are banding the word flight simulator around too loosely.

A flight simulator is what its wording suggests ie anything from the aerobatic pilot using his hand to paint pictures in his mind of the manouvres he will carry out in a competition to an all dancing full blown 3 axis simulator used by the big boys.

MSFS always worked best and was most realistic on autopilot and in the IFR/IMC invironment.

For handflying the models were far too twitchy acted like a puppet on a string had literally no accurate control forces or changes in stick rudder movements and were unable to model aircraft behaviour out of the box of normal operations.

One flight dynamics Guru Rob Young of RealAir Simulations played with the FDE and with a mass of tricks simulated spinning and created a better "feel"
The visuals and weather are pretty well modelled but for total immersion not as good as the old flight Unlimited which although not graphically brilliant was dynamically so.

The problems with it was that MSFS was everything to everybody. All the addons loaded the graphics and brought the sim to a stuttering halt.

MS dropped out and who knows how long the sim will go before going out of date like the other sims Pro Pilot, Fllight Unlimited etc. Only X Plane is in current production but I never used that one.

Pace

[my_business]

No one to forget Nasa Astronaut's they practicing before re-entry in a small laptop!!

[iFabio2]

Just my 2 cents,

if you get the latest x-plane (which has the best flight dynamics of all the stuff around), you can really use it to get some procedures and automatic tasks in your brain (especially if you start flying online which is pretty similar to the reality -> of course it depends who you find on the ATC side but usually they're good). Of course you can learn some basic principles (throttles, yaw, pitch, roll effects), and if you get some realistic scenery (usually for free or you can make your own for your area using some free tools) if you can also practice some vfr navigation. These are the pros, cons are that you don't get any feeling from the controls (at least not in a normal user configuration) so you won't learn that, but you can always spend some time and build a cheap and effective small cabin with plywood, force-feedback controls and a cheap motion platform which will really make it a different story (and really usefull when weather sucks).

So definitely: x-plane + real scenery + ff controls + motion platform = great fun and learning

fabio

[cats_five]

Originally Posted by my_business

It is not lacking in pheriferal views if you are using the right equipment.TrackIR multi monitors etc.
Also very helpful the use of rc models and FPV Flight.

I wonder how much those cost?

To the OP, it seems to me a lot of people are saying that it doesn't help you develop a good lookout - indeed some are saying it can hinder it - and that is something that is really, really, really important. Crucial IMHO. So maybe to start with flying your PC isn't an advisable thing to do.

BTW When I started flying I had tried flying my PC and had crashed it all over the place. I found real flying, with all the sensory inputs it has, reasonably easy *because* of those inputs. Sensations of G, wind noise, the vario (I fly gliders), the great view from the front seat of a glider*, not to mention the noise from the back seat!

*when first flying my own glider I wondered who the fk was following me around. Then I realised it was my tailplane!

[172driver]

Another vote for X-Plane. I sometimes use it to 'fly' into unfamiliar airfields before taking the real plane there.

As for training - I believe a sim used wisely can definitely help. Learning the instrument scan, running checklists, etc. can be practiced in the sim (in X-Plane pretty much all switches in the cockpit are 'live', so can really practice the whole sequence from engine start to shut down). You won't learn to fly an airplane, but as many things in aviation are procedures, you can practice them here for free and in your own time. I don't think the 'not looking out' argument holds much water. You will have to practice that in the real a/c during real flight training anyway.

[my_business]

cats_five

Money is lets say a Home Cinema.

About a Good Lookout is even better.
Pilots learning the importance(if they know where to fly online VATSIM IVAO for example) to have in mind the picture of what is going on by radio!
A very important task that most private pilots don't have in mind.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by MichaelJP59

I can understand that in some ways for ab-initio training, perhaps also because the ex-FS student will be largely self-taught and possibly learned bad habits, whereas a completely fresh student is a "blank canvas".

For ab intio instruction Microsoft FS has IMO negative value. The biggest
problem is students using MSFS fly the instruments instead of looking out the window. This plus a subconcious idea that you can hit the pause button when things are not working out, make me cringe when I hear students talk about their MSFS "experience". You do not prepare for university by watching television, similarly if you want to prepare for your flying training get into the books and learn the basic theory and techniques.

However, MSFS has quite a bit of value for practicing IFR procedures.
By that I mean putting it on autopilot and flying all the IF profiles.

[chillindan]

Thanks all for your constructive replies and opinions. I realise it will be no substitute for the real thing, however I was hoping to use it more to help me to remember to do stuff in the right order and at the right time. Take off checks etc.

I will be flying gliders and as soon as this weather improves (fingers crossed for the weekend) will be getting myself airbourne asap.

But until then I was just hoping to utilise some of my evenings productively.

[cats_five]

For flying gliders I would have thought it of very little value until you are an aspiring XC pilot when Condor is probably the toy of choice. For ab initio flying, lookout is paramount, instruments (ASI) are used a bit (but you learn to fly by attitude to control speed), the radio is very little used (possibly never used), and the pre-flight checklist takes an evening or less to remember. Gliding is a very pure, deceptively simple form of flying.

The other issue flying a PC simulator is lack of rudder pedals - in a glider you *have* to use them along with the stick to fly co-ordinated turns. Suspect that getting into the habit of just needing to waggle the stick would be hard to get out of.

A more productive thing to do would be some reading - almost anything by Derek Pigott will contain useful information. Ask your club what they recommend.

Hope you enjoy your flying!

[gpn01]

Originally Posted by cats_five

For flying gliders I would have thought it of very little value until you are an aspiring XC pilot when Condor is probably the toy of choice.

I once took somebody for a flight and I asked them if they'd ever done any flying before. They said they hadn't (not even as a passenger on an airliner). Showed them what to do, handed the controls over and they flew beautifully. After landing (which I did!) I asked them again about their experience and their comment was "no, I've never flown an aeroplane but I fly MS-Flight Sim loads!".

Originally Posted by cats_five

Gliding is a very pure, deceptively simple form of flying.

I must be doing it wrong then!

[chris-h]

I found Microsoft Flight Sim a great help towards obtaining my ppl with the VOR & ADF tracking, The frequency's on my version where a bit out of date tho!

chris

[irishpilot1990]

i think it would be a great help for IR practice. I did an intense IR programme so did not have the time to spend hours messing around on flight sim x trying to learn how to use it and then fly it accurately.
However i know for a fact if i had invested a few hours in learning how to play the game before I started the course that it would have been a huge benefit during the course for

• learning about the instruments
• practice for flying approaches
• descent mangement

[veloo maniam]

Retired Shell

Hello..I have started on a flight sim. I want to progress further by getting a retired or discarded shell of a light aircraft like a C152/C172 etc.
Basically it is to help in my atc training for new ctlers. As a long time serving ctler I find the MS Flt sim very useful. Now I am planning to make it more realistic with a discarded shell. If the price is right I would like to buy.
Ofcourse I will pay for the delivery charges.

[papa600]

Aside the instrument side of things - the latest MSFS FSX scenery is very good - before visiting an airfield for the first time I fly the approaches to all possible runways just to get familiar with orientation, RW layout, OH joins, RW turn off points etc and I can vouch for ABZ, PTH, DND, INS, FIFE, OBAN being very realistic compared to what you actually see on approach and on the ground.

[Ominater]

I used Microsoft Flight Simulator X alot before taking my first flying lesson. I wouldnt neccessarily it gives you an advantage on your first flight over someone who hasnt. But now I have about 11 hours which isnt alot but I find it great now to practice doing everything properly such as circuits and turns and climbs so being familiar with FS before I think will help you be able to practice well after.

[Miroku]

Can anyone give me an idea of what you need for a simulator (apart from the obvious computer) and an idea of the costs involved?

Could be useful to practice instrument flying.

[Molesworth 1]

I endorse the previous comments that FSX is more useful once you know how to fly. Extremely useful when visiting a new airfield or route. Good also for practising steep turns and stalls. I find it fairly useful for landings even.

Most problem I have with it is that even with the photographic scenery its much easier to work out your position in the circuit in a real a/c rather then FSX.

Remember to do all your checks and R/T even though there's no one there to respond!

[BackPacker]

Can anyone give me an idea of what you need for a simulator (apart from the obvious computer) and an idea of the costs involved?

- The flight sim package itself of course. Retail price 45 to 60 euros, depending on the version.
- At the very least, a decent joystick. I use the MS Force Feedback 2 - 2nd hand available from Amazon for 100 USD upwards. The force feedback stuff is strictly not necessary but will probably increase your ability to trim properly a bit.
- A set of half-decent speakers

That's the bare minimum. You really don't want to have to fly the plane using the mouse and keyboard alone.

From that point on, the next investment would probably be a proper yoke with some prop/throttle controls, and rudder pedals. The Luchtvaart hobbyshop just around my corner is doing a special combo right now for 226.05 euros.

AviationMegastore.com

As Christmas/birthday gifts, there are various add-on packages available. These usually fall into two categories: more realistic scenery and different airplanes. Retail from about 30 euros upwards but there are also free add-ons available on the internet. And there are interface add-ons available on the internet that do a real-time download from Google Earth.

As for hardware, the sky is the limit. Multiple dual head graphic adapters plus screens or beamers, more panels with avionics buttons and so forth, to the point where people build full 737 cockpits themselves, including the overhead panels. Some are even experimenting with putting them on a hydraulic platform so that the whole contraption moves realistically.

[bgbazz]

Flight sim costs

I built myself a cockpit layout based on a Beechcraft Baron and it includes a yoke, rudder pedals, throttle quadrant, radio panel, switch panel and a few other bits and bobs. I use a top of the wozzer computer and monitor which give me a very good frame rate and graphics when using FSX Gold edition. Most of what I have come from Saitek and works very well.
By removing the yoke and throttle quadrant and hooking up my homemade collective and control stick, I have a fun helicopter simulator as well.
Total cost, excluding the PC and monitor, around 600quid.

Go and enjoy.