Glider Pilots of PPRuNe
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I have done a fair amount of gliding in my time, and I have mixed feelings about it all. It is pot luck to find a good club with instructors that are enthusiastic, and are able to teach others..
I did spend a lot of time (and money) at one club... I found that behind the scenes a lot of politics was going on, that managed to spill over to us poor students.. And it showed in various ways..
The training that I did was with one instructor who was fairly good. At odd intervals I was passed onto another instructor. Towards the end of my time with them on a course I went out with the CFI ... Most people were frightened of the CFI.. My experience was one of the best ones that I have ever had.. With the CFI I got to learn how to track over land, keep station over a particular spot and many other little things that you don't normally do. I learned how to make very small delicate movements and really control the aircraft. It was hard work, yet enjoyable. The CFI was talking to me all the time, and in turn I was talking back.. My second time out with the CFI was as good.. Landed out.. Most of the landing approach was done by myself, only on the final approach over a road into a very small field did the CFI take over.. And as a bonus to that experience. I was allowed to take off on a short tow rope.. I lost it after a minute or so. Short tow isn't all that easy, as some will know..
All of the above came crashing down the next day. New instructor, fading light.. To say that I was being treated by him as a beginner wouldn't do justice.. He picked faults in everything I did. Took control from me at virtually every opportunity.. That included the landing that I had set up near the hangars that as far as I was concerned was perfect in position and speed.. I didn't bother going back to the club. I had, enough of it.. Such a shame really.. It took me ages to go back to gliding.. Power was a lot more relaxed and more organised..
The club is still very active.. But I will never go back to them.. They lost me and they lost my two sons who glide at another club..
I still love flying and fairly active on that front. Most memorable time was in Switzerland at Bex.. Lovely club and super people..
Astral
I did spend a lot of time (and money) at one club... I found that behind the scenes a lot of politics was going on, that managed to spill over to us poor students.. And it showed in various ways..
The training that I did was with one instructor who was fairly good. At odd intervals I was passed onto another instructor. Towards the end of my time with them on a course I went out with the CFI ... Most people were frightened of the CFI.. My experience was one of the best ones that I have ever had.. With the CFI I got to learn how to track over land, keep station over a particular spot and many other little things that you don't normally do. I learned how to make very small delicate movements and really control the aircraft. It was hard work, yet enjoyable. The CFI was talking to me all the time, and in turn I was talking back.. My second time out with the CFI was as good.. Landed out.. Most of the landing approach was done by myself, only on the final approach over a road into a very small field did the CFI take over.. And as a bonus to that experience. I was allowed to take off on a short tow rope.. I lost it after a minute or so. Short tow isn't all that easy, as some will know..
All of the above came crashing down the next day. New instructor, fading light.. To say that I was being treated by him as a beginner wouldn't do justice.. He picked faults in everything I did. Took control from me at virtually every opportunity.. That included the landing that I had set up near the hangars that as far as I was concerned was perfect in position and speed.. I didn't bother going back to the club. I had, enough of it.. Such a shame really.. It took me ages to go back to gliding.. Power was a lot more relaxed and more organised..
The club is still very active.. But I will never go back to them.. They lost me and they lost my two sons who glide at another club..
I still love flying and fairly active on that front. Most memorable time was in Switzerland at Bex.. Lovely club and super people..
Astral
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Astral, that certainly show`s the difficulty that comes from learning, and when not getting the same instructor on each occasion.
It`s hard to work out exactly what would be a useful way forward, without increasing prices of having professional instructors, or where it would be unreasonable for the same instructors to be flying every weekend.
It took me just 11 years from first flight to solo...with School, college, University and working slowing things up, as well as flying at Portsmouth Naval, Leeds Uni, Southdowns and Lasham. I managed to get solo at the Inter University Gliding Competition week at Lasham, after having a sustained period of flights with the same instructor.
It`s hard to work out exactly what would be a useful way forward, without increasing prices of having professional instructors, or where it would be unreasonable for the same instructors to be flying every weekend.
It took me just 11 years from first flight to solo...with School, college, University and working slowing things up, as well as flying at Portsmouth Naval, Leeds Uni, Southdowns and Lasham. I managed to get solo at the Inter University Gliding Competition week at Lasham, after having a sustained period of flights with the same instructor.
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Silver C and PPL conversion. Thanks to the dear ex-wife I had to give up my gliding (my first love), but when she tried to tell me to give up powered flying as well, .... well. 
I still see myself as a glider pilot first and foremost and will go back to it once the alimony has been paid.
I still see myself as a glider pilot first and foremost and will go back to it once the alimony has been paid.
Only just noticed this thread about 'proper pilots'. (Head down for incoming from interlopers).
2,000hrs gliding on about 80 types, 800hrs power. 3 diamonds, instructed including CFI for several years but now just enjoy my soaring whenever and wherever I can, in syndicate ASH25 or friends whatever.
2,000hrs gliding on about 80 types, 800hrs power. 3 diamonds, instructed including CFI for several years but now just enjoy my soaring whenever and wherever I can, in syndicate ASH25 or friends whatever.
Whatever activity you practice, sometimes you meet people who seem to delight in fun-removal.
However, there are always other places to do it. I moved clubs once when politics got in the way of fun, and I wouldn't let ego-maniacs kill of my enjoyment of the best fun you can have with your clothes on..
However, there are always other places to do it. I moved clubs once when politics got in the way of fun, and I wouldn't let ego-maniacs kill of my enjoyment of the best fun you can have with your clothes on..
Join Date: Mar 2004
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It's nice to see a gliding thread on here - they are few and far between. I'm in my 33rd year of gliding (started when I was 16). Learnt to fly in Oz and continue to fly and instruct at a 'big club down south' today. 2,600 hours gliding time, 3 diamonds and a UK flown 750. Seem to spend quite a bit of time upside down these days too! Still enjoying it and hope to do so for many years to come yet.
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Ar Ni, Make sure you join up for the Inter Uni Gliding Competition in August. This year it is hosted by Leeds Uni, and hosted at Pocklington at Wolds. Great time meeting everyone from all over the country and also a great chance for some progression. I`m looking forward to it already!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Nice thread, I guess there are quite a few glider pilots on PP.
I fly at Lasham, Hants which is the largest UK club - high fees but great facilities and full time staff so you can turn up and get a launch whenever you need one.
Cross country flying and racing/competitions is fantastic sport and the variations in the weather, often subtle, mean it never gets boring. I fly an 18m glider with turbo and have 1,400hrs. Longest flight so far was Aboyne (Scotland) to Lasham in a glider, 11:00hrs airborne! Memorable.
OG
I fly at Lasham, Hants which is the largest UK club - high fees but great facilities and full time staff so you can turn up and get a launch whenever you need one.
Cross country flying and racing/competitions is fantastic sport and the variations in the weather, often subtle, mean it never gets boring. I fly an 18m glider with turbo and have 1,400hrs. Longest flight so far was Aboyne (Scotland) to Lasham in a glider, 11:00hrs airborne! Memorable.
OG
Interesting thread. I tried gliding about 18 months ago at Hollister, at the very southern end of the Bay Area. I thought it would be fun, I'd learn something, and get a new rating in lieu of a BFR. I got as far as soloing but just didn't see the fun or interest in continuing.
I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".
I know the fun is supposed to be in finding lift and squeezing every vertical inch out of it, but in the half dozen times I did it, there was never a breath of lift to be found.
It seems to me, as others have said on the thread, that gliding is more about lifestyle than about flying - it really has to be a consuming passion (and it helps to be somewhere that gets some lift). Whereas powered flying is something you can structure around the rest of your life.
n5296s
I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".
I know the fun is supposed to be in finding lift and squeezing every vertical inch out of it, but in the half dozen times I did it, there was never a breath of lift to be found.
It seems to me, as others have said on the thread, that gliding is more about lifestyle than about flying - it really has to be a consuming passion (and it helps to be somewhere that gets some lift). Whereas powered flying is something you can structure around the rest of your life.
n5296s
I fly an 18m glider with turbo
I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".
Last year with poor conditions and other commitments, I managed 23 flights and 32 hours at a cost including club fees and trailer parking of about $2100 ~= $65/hr.
The year before was 65 flights and 65 hr. for $48/hr.
As you get better at staying up, the tow fees become a smaller proportion.
It seems to me, as others have said on the thread, that gliding is more about lifestyle than about flying - it really has to be a consuming passion (and it helps to be somewhere that gets some lift). Whereas powered flying is something you can structure around the rest of your life.
n5296s
n5296s
I have heard more than one professional pilot say that soaring is the only real flying there is. But when your first experience is stuck in a sleigh ride, it is hard to appreciate the truth in that statement. And if you really appreciate the utility of something like a C182, it is hard to find any utility in a glider, because there is none. Partly it is lifestyle, but I feel I'm in the soaring for the flying. Partly for the challenge, partly because now that I'm established it is cheap. Between tow and rental fees at my club I'm paying about $30-40/hour on the average. When I fly my own glider I generally shoot for direct costs of $10/hour. But, when insurance etc is factored in it ends up more like $40-50/hour to fly my own ship. The advantage to owning a glider is not financial. The advantage is that when it is good, and I have the time, it's there for me for as long as I want. Last time I flew the pitts it was $180/hour dual, and I think it's gone up.
I have met many people who have decided soaring is not for them for similar reasons that you stated. Nothing wrong with that!
-- IFMU
Longest flight so far was Aboyne (Scotland) to Lasham in a glider, 11:00hrs airborne! Memorable.
ChrisN is obvious, as are one or two others.
It's fun working out who is who.
F2.
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Started at Lasham 1966. Tony Burton instructor. Did a winter course and started a syndicate with 2 pals and bought an Oly 2B from the Polish Air Force Assoc. Did my 5 hours / 6 actually and landed with a numb bum. Gain of height at same time. Never got the cross country leg as I was sent abroad. Took up power because one could do it alone and when suitable. Still really glad I learnt to fly in all manner of winds and the sound of an engine quitting is never quite so traumatic if you have gliding experience IMHO. Talking single engine VFR aircraft. Bronze C - final solo glide was in a Pirat - seemed so advanced after an Oly 2B but you could really scrape in the Oly!
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I have just sent in my enrollment form for my second week of gliding at Salland (the Netherlands). Last year I did 15 dual flights, and I hope I can go solo this year.
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Fitter, Oi! I was trying to figure out who OG was! And you know I know you!
I think I have met Robin, but I’m not absolutely sure. Most of the others I couldn’t guess at.
All I wish to divulge about me is that I started in 1970, have gold and two diamonds, ex-instructor, and am involved in various gliding and other aviation committee work. My only 500 km flight for the third diamond didn’t count, as the camera jammed.
Cjboy, the restriction on not taking your wife for a flight must have been a club rule, not gliding as legally determined in the UK, nor as allowed by BGA operational regulations. On the contrary, there is a BGA licence which does not require any instructor rating, and confers amongst other privileges the ability to take passengers. It is basically about the Silver C standard (I can’t be bothered to check the rules, but if you are that interested you could find out for yourself).
To other mainly power pilots who comment adversely on gliding, of course it is not a utility means of transport. It is a pleasurable hobby, a sport if you choose to take it that way including competitive elements, or whatever. Regarding costs, yes it is approximately equivalent cost per hour of flying to get to solo standard, but the total hours to solo and therefore cost is lower than power flying. After that, it is very much a question of how you choose to do it. A cheap secondhand glider owned on your own, or with even lower costs by sharing with several others in a syndicate, will result in very much lower total costs to someone who does say 50 hours a year than power flying. On the other hand, yes, you do have to give more time to it. If you do your share of work around the gliding club, it is much more time-consuming than power flying. To my mind, they are no more comparable endeavours than are dinghy sailing and owning a power yacht that enables you to visit Monte Carlo. My total annual costs for typically 50-60 hours a year used to be around a thousand pounds when I owned a 30-year-old wooden glider (K6E for those who understand). Now it is a lot more, because I bought a new high performance glider, but that’s just my choice.
Chris N.
I think I have met Robin, but I’m not absolutely sure. Most of the others I couldn’t guess at.
All I wish to divulge about me is that I started in 1970, have gold and two diamonds, ex-instructor, and am involved in various gliding and other aviation committee work. My only 500 km flight for the third diamond didn’t count, as the camera jammed.
Cjboy, the restriction on not taking your wife for a flight must have been a club rule, not gliding as legally determined in the UK, nor as allowed by BGA operational regulations. On the contrary, there is a BGA licence which does not require any instructor rating, and confers amongst other privileges the ability to take passengers. It is basically about the Silver C standard (I can’t be bothered to check the rules, but if you are that interested you could find out for yourself).
To other mainly power pilots who comment adversely on gliding, of course it is not a utility means of transport. It is a pleasurable hobby, a sport if you choose to take it that way including competitive elements, or whatever. Regarding costs, yes it is approximately equivalent cost per hour of flying to get to solo standard, but the total hours to solo and therefore cost is lower than power flying. After that, it is very much a question of how you choose to do it. A cheap secondhand glider owned on your own, or with even lower costs by sharing with several others in a syndicate, will result in very much lower total costs to someone who does say 50 hours a year than power flying. On the other hand, yes, you do have to give more time to it. If you do your share of work around the gliding club, it is much more time-consuming than power flying. To my mind, they are no more comparable endeavours than are dinghy sailing and owning a power yacht that enables you to visit Monte Carlo. My total annual costs for typically 50-60 hours a year used to be around a thousand pounds when I owned a 30-year-old wooden glider (K6E for those who understand). Now it is a lot more, because I bought a new high performance glider, but that’s just my choice.
Chris N.
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I got as far as soloing but just didn't see the fun or interest in continuing.
I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".
I know the fun is supposed to be in finding lift and squeezing every vertical inch out of it, but in the half dozen times I did it, there was never a breath of lift to be found.
I was shocked at how expensive it is -- it cost more per hour of flying time than the Pitts (which is not a cheap plane to fly), because of the cost of tows. I was also surprised by how boring it is - get towed up, release, tool around for 10 minutes, point back at field, fly pattern, land. Could be summarised as "controlled falling".
I know the fun is supposed to be in finding lift and squeezing every vertical inch out of it, but in the half dozen times I did it, there was never a breath of lift to be found.
We mostly do winch launching where I fly, so when there's no lift the up round & down takes 5 minutes or so, but if one needs to practise landings it's much cheaper than using aerotows.
If you go back when there is lift around you might have a completely different and much more rewarding experience.
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Hi
Another budding (?) glider here.
First flights topless in 1965 at Lasham
Solo at Haddenham the following year at 16 - seemed as easy as p!55.
PPL solo in 92 + IMC (resting) mainly with the much missed Barry Dyke
And 18 months ago, a couple of weeks hol with Mrs SD at Lasham, and solo once again. The most challenging learning task I have ever had.
Love to do more (time & ££
)
SD
Another budding (?) glider here.
First flights topless in 1965 at Lasham
Solo at Haddenham the following year at 16 - seemed as easy as p!55.
PPL solo in 92 + IMC (resting) mainly with the much missed Barry Dyke
And 18 months ago, a couple of weeks hol with Mrs SD at Lasham, and solo once again. The most challenging learning task I have ever had.
Love to do more (time & ££
)SD
I have about 150 hours gliding, a Silver C and held a BI rating.
I gave up about 6 years ago, mainly becaues of club politics and partly due to a suspect back which was made worse by ground handling and rigging.
I was a member of a large(ish) club made up of 80% nice people, 10% idiots and 10% a*&%holes who got their satisfaction by spoiling somebody's day!!
I would love to get back, particularly it it could be away from the traditional gliding club. I dream of finding a farm strip with a handful of friends.
Chris
I gave up about 6 years ago, mainly becaues of club politics and partly due to a suspect back which was made worse by ground handling and rigging.
I was a member of a large(ish) club made up of 80% nice people, 10% idiots and 10% a*&%holes who got their satisfaction by spoiling somebody's day!!
I would love to get back, particularly it it could be away from the traditional gliding club. I dream of finding a farm strip with a handful of friends.
Chris