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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 13:15   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Benfleet, Essex
Age: 57
Posts: 7
Avid Speedwing/Flyer vs Kitfox

Hi all
I'm a newbie to this forum, just looking for some information/advice if possible.

I'm fairly recently qualified PPL in a 152, taken the conversion for PA28 & 172. I'm thinking of buying an Avid Speedwing (pref MkIV), but I believe it has connections similarities with the Kitfox. Done a bit of Googling but haven't come up with much. Am I correct the the Kitfox is more similar to the Flyer & therefore has the larger wings & is a little slower at cruise speeds than the Speedwing. Any other significant advantages/disadvantages of one over the other? I am aware of the dodgy flapperons! - believe the advice is simply not to use them.

To keep up the hours on my PPL the plane would have to be non-microlight, if I came up with a microlight version that was suitable how easy is it to get it reclassified as a VLA?

Thanx in advance for any assistance.
Russ
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Old 24th Oct 2008, 17:31   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8
Kitfox dodgy?

Hi Russ

The Kitfox and Avid share a lot. I cannot quote performance figures for the Avid but can help with the Kitfox.

Dodgy flapperons? Yes on the earlier models(Mk 1,2 and 3) there have been some problems with lateral control. Some pilots even saw the lever off.......however the Mk 4 has no such problems. You need to pin an Avid flyer down for their opinion on model differences.

Cruising speeds......my Mk4 Kitfox has a Rotax 912......cruises at 100mph on 4400 rpm which is around 12 litres ph.

The majority have 582 's and are a little thirstier. Cruising at 85 ish.

The major difference you will find is they are much lighter and I would advise some conversion time. It is totally different from the school aircraft....... but lots of fun.

Some are convertible to VLA. Sometimes mods have been done to the wings (Optima conversion) this precludes dropping back to microlight.I believe the Mk 2 and Mk3 can be either but the Mk4 is a VLA.

Weight can be an issue for MAUW. Depends on your starting weight as to how much fuel and passenger you can carry. I believe the majority are 1050lbs with an empty weight around the 600lb mark. However there are three Mk4 1200lb versions in the country (I have one of them due to pies) and I believe a couple of Speedsters which have a clipped wing and 1200lb limit.

If you ring Shobdon, Microair services (I think) and ask for Adrian he is a font of all Kitfox knowledge and may be able to help.
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Old 24th Oct 2008, 18:44   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 72
I put a similar posting up last month and the concensus was to look at the Rans S6... seems pretty good, but considering the current inavailability of any aeroplanes at all you will need to consider everything that comes along!
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Old 24th Oct 2008, 19:24   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 13
Thumbs up

loads of availability in Italy for some reason, and a lot cheaper than the uk by a long shot,
Have a look at

skysupermarket.com

So if you fancy a long cross country!
Fleep is offline   Reply
Old 25th Oct 2008, 11:06   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8
Rans 6

If its a Rans 6 taildragger with a 912 Rotax in you want.......theres one on AFORS page 2 of Light Aircraft for sale at the moment
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Old 25th Oct 2008, 12:43   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Benfleet, Essex
Age: 57
Posts: 7
Particularly attracted to the Kitfox/Avid due to the fast wingfold, a Rans is going to need hangaring (which I can probably get but around 170 a month b4 you start flying doesn't seem particularly helpful). A wingfold aircraft I can keep at home trailering to a strip & rigging isn't going to take significantly longer than driving & moving a plane out of a hangar.

Any other fast wingfold aircraft that I've missed? I like the Reality Escapade , but only seen one for sale in this country & somewhat out of my price range.
Russ Bost is offline   Reply
Old 26th Oct 2008, 01:23   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,750
Danger Do NOT Turn back to the runway

There have been two recent Kitfox accidents where there was engine trouble and the pilot and passenger were killed attempting a turn back to the runway.

The Kitfox is not particularly prone to this accident as lots of a/c will also kill you if you attempt the same.

But one does not hear so much of this accident type in certificated a/c these days. The ultralights do seem to have more engine problems.
RatherBeFlying is offline   Reply
Old 26th Oct 2008, 11:27   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 72
>>>Particularly attracted to the Kitfox/Avid due to the fast wingfold<<<

In the previous thread I was advised against this facility as a every-flight option but to use it as an occassional benefit owing to the lightweight nature of the hinge mechanics... does anyone have any comment? I can only pass on what was written as I have no experience in this matter.

>>>theres one on AFORS page 2 of Light Aircraft for sale at the moment <<<

As I explained on the AFORS page I can only afford half of this aeroplane
Perhaps using the power of PPRuNe we might be able to find someone to buy the other half...

Anyone interested in owning 50% of Watnochute's S6 and flying it from an airfield somewhere between Peterborough and Lincoln?
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Old 26th Oct 2008, 23:13   #9 (permalink)
737
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: 500' above Ireland
Posts: 32
I've owned a MK2 Kitfox for 12 years and almost 1000 hours.

I kept it in a trailer and folded its wings after every flight for the first three years. I have an extra support that fits between the fuselage and the forward spar where the pin fits. This takes the weight off the hinge when the wings are folded. It also helps if the wing tanks are empty. Its not a problem for me as I have the large fuselage tank and two wing tanks but it can be if you only have a small fuselage tank.

If the wing tanks are more than about 2/3 full and the wings are folded then the fuel can leak out through the filler caps!

Overall its a great little aircraft but a good check-out is essential. I cruise at 80 mph on a 582 burning about 17 litres/hr. Its climbs at 700 fpm at MTOW and 1400 fpm solo. The flaps are not needed because in a good slip 1500 fpm down is no problem and the landing roll is never more than about 50 metres!

I can't say much about the Avid as I've only flown one, fitted with a Jabiru and a horrible nose-wheel.
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Old 27th Oct 2008, 09:19   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 72
A Mk2 Kitfox with a 582 has just appeared on afors, after reading 73's positive comments I am going to investigate (I can afford the asking price)... maybe I'll escape being an armchair pilot yet!!!!
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Old 27th Oct 2008, 21:29   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 8
Exclamation Just in case

its wrong to push a sale........it's not my S6 for sale....I have a Kitfox. Just trying to assist as I surf AFORS daily and saw it advertised (Sad I know)

Re the folding wings, most Kitfox owners use the wingfold system, it's easy and no real problem as long as care is taken. As mentioned use the supports and watch the fuel load. Trailering is slightly more difficult with all that securing etc don't just trust the wing to fuselage rods, tie them together as well.

As an aside, some people advocate towing the Kitfox w/o a trailer if it's a short distance. Don't........you commit road traffic offences such as no tread (trailer tyres now require a min tread depth) and no spats, both of which plod can ticket you for.
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Old 28th Oct 2008, 16:19   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: lincolnshire
Posts: 72
Don't worry mate... I'm old and ugly enough to make my own decisions

I surf afors everyday looking for a group/aircraft I can afford with my limited budget of 12k
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Old 29th Oct 2008, 15:33   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 9
Hi Russ & Rauxaman.
I've sent you both a pm. check your inboxes. Martin
flybydayuk is offline   Reply
Old 11th Nov 2008, 18:05   #14 (permalink)
Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: france
Posts: 1
arid speedwing

hi, I am brit PPL living in france. I am looking to buy a Speedwing 4,
I was interested in your reply , to try Italy. Can you please forward
any information that could help me.

cheers Gordon
gordonjohnson is offline   Reply
Old 12th Nov 2008, 07:41   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: suffolk
Posts: 404
Russ,just sent you a PM
hatzflyer is offline   Reply
Old 8th Feb 2009, 20:08   #16 (permalink)
Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: newjersey
Age: 60
Posts: 1
avid flyer

I have a avid flyer modle A its been ten years do I need to check or replace any glue or wing structures on the ribs since they have been glued I am scard they might loosen thankyou.
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Old 9th Feb 2009, 17:03   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 11,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Bost View Post
Hi all
I'm a newbie to this forum, just looking for some information/advice if possible.

I'm fairly recently qualified PPL in a 152, taken the conversion for PA28 & 172. I'm thinking of buying an Avid Speedwing (pref MkIV), but I believe it has connections similarities with the Kitfox. Done a bit of Googling but haven't come up with much. Am I correct the the Kitfox is more similar to the Flyer & therefore has the larger wings & is a little slower at cruise speeds than the Speedwing. Any other significant advantages/disadvantages of one over the other? I am aware of the dodgy flapperons! - believe the advice is simply not to use them.

To keep up the hours on my PPL the plane would have to be non-microlight, if I came up with a microlight version that was suitable how easy is it to get it reclassified as a VLA?

Thanx in advance for any assistance.
Russ
- The two aircraft are quite similar

- A C152 prepares you to fly neither (and PA28 or C172 even less so). I'd recommend some quality time in a taildragging microlight such as a Thruster TST, T300 or T600N with a microlight instructor before going near the Avid or Kitfox.

- You cannot easily transfer most microlights to the VLA category.

- If the best aeroplane is a microlight, get microlight differences training and fly that. The worse that does for you is the requirement to revalidation SEP by test later.

- And having done that, get the aeroplane checked by an appropriate, and independent, PFA or BMAA inspector before buying it.

G
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