I recall a couple of years ago, at a UK CAA safety evening, some chap from the ministry (ex RN helo driver?) telling us that the L.A.S.T. transponder was soon going to be here at a projected £250. Now, having no electrics on my wooden aeroplane I was keen on getting a battery power unit with enough oomph to paint me on every radar within miles.
Has anyone got a believeable update on the efficacy of the current crop of Mode S transponders with regards to range, power output, radiation effects, weight and price?
I visited the approach control at a Major UK international airfield (well, Cardiff) and was interested to note that they didn't have mode S info displayed (or maybe not displayable?) Is it ready to roll out or is they system slipping behind schedule?
Does it work? Will it work? Can I afford it? Can I not afford it? Do I need to get some lead-lined underpants?
I'm sure the info is "out there" somewhere but a lot seems to be either out of date or a bit 'sensationalist'.
There is no prospect of a "cheap" transponder until Mode S is mandatory for all traffic, and this is obviously not going to happen for many years, if ever.
I don't know why the CAA was claiming there would be one - such a claim (which I heard too, in their conferences etc) was never going to happen. It made no commercial sense because none of the existing manufacturers is going to bomb the market price and cut their own throats, and no newcomer is going to get aggressive until the much enlarged market is assured.
Most European airports don't have Mode S and won't for years.
The radiation from any transponder is very low because it is in very short bursts.
The original CAA sponsored low power mode s transponder is a dead duck. Trials showed significant problems and it did not comply with international standards. The CAA has categorically stated it will not mandate mode s for all aircraft due to the insurmountable technical problems in getting something to work, and not braking rules such as minimum empty weight (critical for micros).
If you want a protable mode s unit which works the only one I know of is;
Mode S & TCAS won't work for GA. Not enough aircraft fitting the transponders, and even if they did, not enough ATC units able to receive mode S.
Ballistic parachutes can not be used at low level where most risk of midairs occurs.(Manoevering at airports, OHJs, mixing VFR with IFR etc)
See & Avoid is less than 50% effective even in perfect conditions when you know the traffic is there.
So what else can we do to minimise the risk of a midair? Would the fitting of VERY big and bright alternate flashing strobe lights be cost effective, or useless?
Flying is not without risk, perhaps we should just accept that fact and consider the effects of our accidental deaths on our families.
Rod wrote [snip] TRT 800A Mode S Transponder at £1729 inc vat
GS 7 Mobile Housing For TRT 800 at £403 inc vat
Rod, Hi. What about the aerial - does the unit include it or do you need a stick-on or something? And what about the battery to drive it?
Chris N.
OK, found the answer:
GS 7 Mobile Housing For TRT 600 / 800 With rechargable battery. Add the price of the transponder to get the complete price. Charger extra. Antenna fitted to top of unit is included. Available only when ordered with a transponder and not on its own; this is for certification and warranty reasons.
I guess that the £2500 price still stands after you add VAT, fitting and a short man from the ministry coming over to sign your piece of paper.
I've had a go at a Red Arrows type smoke generator on my Healey. Injects dirty diesel into the exhaust pipe about 10 inches below the exhaust valve. Makes a lovely puff of smoke. I noticed the Arrows dropping puffs as they turned base leg. Makes them quite visible. Probably better than Mode S, anyway.
Any ideas on the current/wattage of the current Mode S systems? Are we talking AA batteries or a fat one from a burglar alarm?
Are new Mode A/C fitments banned in the UK? I recall hearing something to that effect. Seemed a little.....y'know.....unwise to stop adding them especially as they've become so cheap on the secondhand market.
Strobes help - particularly the double or more flash units. But when the ambient light levels are high they are much less visible.
If Mode S came with TIS then I would buy a set this year. At the moment it adds nothing to my Mode C and so is a complete waste of money.
2 years ago Kinetic announced their LAST unit complete with a price tag. Since then I can only suppose they have either proved it does not work, or it is not cost effective for them to tool up (of hire a sub-contractor to do this) to produce the unit.
I also remember that the CAA were touting a 'strobe detection' device which IIRC was being developed by Quiniteq. Strangely (or not perhaps?) I've heard nothing more in recent years.
Flarm doesn't trigger SSR or TCAS only another Flarm. There is no UK terrain database I could find. Mainly used and very useful around the Alps as I understand. Our local gliding club told me few in their members planned to fit it. I know one UK non gliding related GA aircraft fitting one and he was given it. ADS-B does what Flarm does and works without a ground station in range. It is the way forward. Ask the FAA.
My 2p
Steve
Last edited by Steve Neale : 19th August 2008 at 19:35.
When you say "portable Mode S unit", in what way? Mode S transponders have to be set up with the Mode S aircraft address of the airframe they are attached to. Is this being used by more than one aircraft, or just portable as in not permanently installed?
Blue up, information I have seen is that typical current usage of modern solid state Mode S transponders (Filser, Garrecht etc.) is about 1 A or less. A 7-AH battery should give 4-6 hours use before the voltage drops too much, at low altitudes/normal temperatures. Less when high/cold. Less if lots of interrogations, presumably. (All second hand from others, no personal experience.)
Older types, using a heated altitude encoder thingy, presumably use lots more juice, and Mode C squitters much more often that Mode S – I am told.
If this is wrong, no doubt an expert will soon be along to correct it.
Chris N.
PS – there is a picture of the Filser “portable” with antenna and battery etc. at Mode S Transponders from LX avionics Ltd . I would not fancy carrying that in my glider cockpit with me.
Is it possible to buy a mode C tx new or have all manufacturers stopped building A/C only, as mode S includes everything? I am not tx equipped & sometimes feel like I need it.
After 31st March 2008 it is no longer possible to legally fit a Mode a/c transponder to a G reg machine. So it's Mode S or nothing.....
This was part of the 'consultation process' - which I don't much remember being mentioned. There is a 4 year transition period for aircraft already equipped with a mode a/c.
I'd appreciate a reference to support that Rod, I looked up the official statement on the CAA website, mainly because I was flying with a firend last weekend who wanted to fit a secondhand mode c unit. My post is a near exact quote from them so if it is possible how?
exemption permitting mode A with mode C ... until 31 March 2012, applies only if the aircraft was so equipped prior to 31st March 2008 I take it, that this means you are not allowed to fit mode C as a new installation now. refer: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=9320
I just looked at the CAA site ref; Mode S. If you go through the "interactive guide" thing "below FL100, outside CAS, International FIS boundaries, Mandatory zones, blah blah" Mode S not required but highly recomended. No gaurantee that Mode C will be allowed after 2012." I can't find where it says "not allowed to fit one if none is fitted at present".
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