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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 14:14   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Age: 31
Posts: 66
is it that obvious ?

written on the POOLEYS FB7 flight board.

V - A
T
T
F
M
P
F
G
G
H
H

also:

P - L
B
U
M
P
F
F
H
H

on the following link described as:
"Mnemonic Vital Actions and Downwind Check Lists."

http://www.pooleys.com/prod_detail.c...category_id=51

can someone tell me what they stand for ???
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 14:34   #2 (permalink)
 
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 14:50   #3 (permalink)

I'd rather be floating

 
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Quote:
P - L
B
U
M
P
F
F
H
H
Rejoining / downwind checks.

There are lots of versions of this.

The one I was taught was

Brakes
Undercarriage
Mixture
Fuel
Hatches
Harness

One might guess that the P is (propeller) Pitch but I've never flown anything for which it was relevant. Dunno what the other F is. And if you're flying at night there'll be something to do with lights in there as well?
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 14:53   #4 (permalink)
 
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P might be for Pitch as you would normally put it on coarse when on downwind.

The other 'F' is normally for flaps isn't it?
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 14:54   #5 (permalink)
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Fuel Pump? (for either P or F..)
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 15:05   #6 (permalink)
 
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V - A
T
T
F
M
P
F
G
G
H
H

Looks like a variant of the old Three Male Prostitutes Fornicating Gents Hourly (or Three Mince Pies For Good Health if you prefer.) 3 actions per letter:-

Temps within limits
Trim set
Throttle Friction set

Mixture rich
Mags on both
Master switches on

Pitch set to fine
Pitot Heat on
Pressures (fuel & oil) within limits

Flaps set for take-off
Fuel pump on if required, set to correct tank, sufficient for flight
Full and free movement of the controls

Generator charging
Gyros and gauges set and working
Gills set as required

Hatches secure
Harnesses secure
Hour (note take-off time)

Mike
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 15:52   #7 (permalink)
 
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nice one mike.

so they're not that obvious! how come mr pooleys has them written on his board as though they were standard ...
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 16:04   #8 (permalink)
 
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funny how mnemonics should make things easier and here we are discussing what they actually mean

is it not much easier and more logical to scan the panel left to right and check everything is the way it should be ?
If there isn't an undercarriage lever at all, chances are that the undercarriage will be down

Was taught to do it that way in the PFL checks and I find it easier than BUMPFHHing all the time

regards

Ivor
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 16:16   #9 (permalink)
 
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Spot on Ivor! I don't want to be in the circuit with some chap looking at a check list or printed letters on a knee board trying to remember what to do next. I want some one whose head is up and eyes are outide the cockpit.

The proper approach to check lists in basic aeroplanes was taught me by my instructor. I'd bought one to look keen before I started my lessons. When he saw it he said, 'what do you think you're going to learn in a bloody airliner'. He threw it in the bin.

His view point was that in simple aeroplanes it should not be beyond the ability of a pilot to learn his machine properly. A scan bottom left round to bottom right did the trick.
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 16:46   #10 (permalink)
 
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Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,034
Flow checks are great.

However there are several critical items that should be confirmed before you take off or land.

Take off::

Confirm that the fuel tanks you have selected actually have sufficient fuel in them.....and that your flight controls are moving free and in the proper direction if you can see them.

Landing::

Confirm your landing gear is in the correct position for the landing you are about to make.
Chuck Ellsworth is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Dec 2007, 18:39   #11 (permalink)
 
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A lot of the stuff in my list above is superfluous in the Luscombe:-

Pitch set to fine - wot that?
Pitot Heat on - ????
Pressures (fuel & oil) within limits - Oil I understand - but fuel?
Flaps set for take-off - Flaps???
Fuel pump on if required, set to correct tank, sufficient for flight - Fuel Pump???
Gills set as required - Gills???

All a bit of a mystery really
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 19:02   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
funny how mnemonics should make things easier and here we are discussing what they actually mean
Mnemonics are intended to make such sequences easy to remember through single letters. The real failing of this flight board is that they have the opportunity to write on the full word for each item, but don't. The initial letters are the easy part!
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 20:12   #13 (permalink)
 
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- - - P might be for Pitch as you would normally put it on coarse when on downwind.



Er, surely you mean fine pitch (max RPM) to increase drag on the approach and increase climb performance in the event of a go around? Or is this type specific to whatever you're flying?

That's what I've always been taught.
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 20:28   #14 (permalink)
 
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I'm going to open myself up to maybe getting some negative comments from some here.....

......I personally never use full fine pitch in piston engine airplanes during the approach for a landing...I do however move the pitch control / 's to the full fine position as I close the throttle /'s for the landing.

I find that to work just fine as it is easier on the engine and I don't have to put up with all that noise caused by high RPM. As to increasing drag on the approach there are other ways to do that if needed.
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 20:35   #15 (permalink)
 
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The point with moving pitch to full fine on approach is to be prepared for a go-around or the need for full power, me thinks. Most engines will probably handle a light overboost (ie MP higher than RPM) but the old radials weren't that forgiving, I think the idea has remained from that era. So long as you don't forget to shove the prop forward with the throttle it shouldn't be a problem. But, how many don't forget?
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 21:16   #16 (permalink)
 
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Red Green & Blue for me:

Red - Mixture Rich
Green - Gear Down
Blue - Prop Forward
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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 21:25   #17 (permalink)
 
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May I comment on your post deice and do so only from the position of what I have been doing since I started flying?


The point with moving pitch to full fine on approach is to be prepared for a go-around or the need for full power, me thinks.

You are correct, there are many pilots who believe that.

However the go around poses no problem when you apply go around power in the proper manner....RPM selected for the power desired...then increase to desired power.

Most engines will probably handle a light overboost (ie MP higher than RPM) but the old radials weren't that forgiving, I think the idea has remained from that era.

True most engines handle some overboost but why risk overboosting in the first place when it is so simple to increase RPM with increased power?

I was never taught to increase RPM on the approach unless there was some very unusual need for higher power such as unusual turbulence. We were taught to make power changes as needed when needed and to avoid like the plague using an RPM high enough to produce drag on the engine during a descent. ( Radial engines. )


So long as you don't forget to shove the prop forward with the throttle it shouldn't be a problem. But, how many don't forget
?

And therein lies the problem....if you are trained to do it the correct way from the start it is not a problem....it's sort of like when you want to climb you don't move the elevator control foward.... (unless you are inverted.)

Anyhow that is how I have been doing it and it has worked quite well for me, and that is what I teach.

The worst enemy of a radial engine is a throttle / pitch control monkey.
Chuck Ellsworth is offline   Reply
Old 2nd Dec 2007, 22:45   #18 (permalink)
 
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Oops, brain and hands weren't in sync there.

I meant that I would put pitch to fine on downwind but I am interested to hear that there are those who don't.

I suppose if you stick to the old maxim: 'Rev up, throttle down' you'll be fine at the right time... gettit? gettit? 'fine at the right time'! 'fine' ....!

Ha ha ha...hmmm, not funny was it...nope...not at all....

I'll go to bed now...

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Old 2nd Dec 2007, 23:11   #19 (permalink)
 
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Quote:

I meant that I would put pitch to fine on downwind but I am interested to hear that there are those who don't.

**************************************

Why abuse your engine when there is no need to?

You are descending during the approach to land.....why abuse your engine when gravity supplies the force to go down?
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 07:12   #20 (permalink)
 
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Because that's what the owner, my FI and the checklist supplied with the aircraft told me to do. I imagine a lot of aircraft owners do the same without questioning why.

As a relatively low hour PPL holder I don't ignore that kind of advice because I don't know any better. That doesn't mean it's the right way to do things, so I'm always open to other opinions.

If it were my aircraft I would be keen to minimise engine wear and tear and I think I could manage to change prop pitch as well as flaps, gear etc when going-around, so it's certainly not something I would not consider.
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