Allow for c0ckups like the I-20 form going to the wrong address... U.S. schools are sometimes less than great when it comes to working out how to address a package to a "foreign" country. My I-20 got lost because they sent it to a UK instructor who was acting as their agent over here, and he was not around to sign for the package. Actually that caused me a lot of hassle because that school could not be used, and they resulted in a 'training not completed' entry on the US Immigration computer, and now anytime I enter the USA I get treated like a terrorist, with special interrogation.
Before you initiate the TSA process, you need to be sure that the Flight school you want to use - that they will accept you and sponsor your visa process and that they can fit you in to their schedule - as you have to enter your chosen Flight School in the TSA submission.
No point specifying the training school in the TSA submission then to find out that the Flight School cannot take you.
You get no refunds for a TSA submission that goes wrong.
This is one of the most informative threads about flying in the us, iv looked at a lot of sites and I think that flyOFT,flyoba, naplesair,all look very impressive and seem to cater for the foreign student. There are also a lot of others such as taildraggesect.com which can claim to get you a ppl within 2 weeks. To be honest I am a bit confused for which one I should go for. Has anyone any bad experiences and do many people fail the test or have to take over 60hours to get it?
Well, those schools are not JAA schools so they cannot give you a JAA PPL directly. As the audience in here is predominantly (though not exclusively) a European audience, you might want to try one of the more US-centric forums to ask your question.
As for a PPL in two weeks: yet is it is possible provided that:
- You have studied all the theory beforehand and preferably done all the theory exams beforehand.
- You lose no days because of bureaucratic issues like TSA fingerprinting, doctor visits for your medical etc.
- You have excellent weather throughout.
- You are able to cope with three flights per day, every day, an hour or more each, plus preparation, brief, debrief.
- You are prepared to have no life whatsoever outside the flight school for two weeks straight.
- 45 flight hours are enough to prepare you for the skills test - in other words you've got to have normal aptitude and not overrun the 45 hours requirement.
- You pass the skills test first time
- There are no aircraft going tech
- There's excellent instructor availability and examiner availability
I met virtually all of these requirements, and yet found it challenging to finish in 21 days.
But hey, why not enroll on a 14-day course but simultaneously make sure your financial, vacation, accommodation and travel arrangements and so forth are all flexible so that you can overrun to 21 days or more? Who knows, it might just work out.
I dont mind about having no time outside of the course but Id rather go where people went previously and have given positive feedback form the experience such as Orlando Flight Training which is the one I think you went to.
You are right it isnt a JAA school that does it in two weeks and i think id be better of going to a JAA. You have answered my question. What are the JAA schools with the best reputations for getting the PPL within 3 weeks and possibly an instrument rating after that.
Well, nobody here has been to all of them so I don't think you'd be able to find anybody here that can compare one to another. And it's also next to impossible to get your hands on statistics like hours to the skill test, pass rates and such. So you just have to pick one and hope for the best, really.
As for the IR, I don't think you can do a JAA IR outside the JAA member states (ie. Florida). I don't know why exactly, but my guess is that it has to do with weather being wildly different.
In any case, I don't think it would be a good idea to do the IR straight after your PPL skills test. Better build some experience first, decide on the type of flying you're going to do and then make the decision. An IR is useful for serious touring but if serious touring is not your piece of cake, or doesn't match with your budget, it's a waste of money. And the currency rules for an IR are even stricter than for a VFR PPL so you might end up throwing good money after bad if you find you don't use your IR regularly enough.
(Having said that, if you intend to go commercial, you can do your IR straight after your PPL and use those training hours to count towards your CPL.)
As far as I know it isn't possible to do the JAA IR in the US...it's just a requirement of the rating that it is done in a JAA country.
One school that I do know of - and have heard good things about - which has just gained JAR approval for PPL is Florida Aviation Career Training in St Augustine.
I'm going there to do the FAA IR soon so I'll see what it's like.
I have applied for Sunstate aviation for FAA PPL, and they claim that I dont need a interview at embassy, and the M-visum. I will go under the turist visa, since its less than 18 hours per week?
I will go under the turist visa, since its less than 18 hours per week?
Explore, I think you will find that noone here will touch this issue anymore, not even with a bargepole. It's been discussed here without a clear outcome and since getting it wrong might be very costly for some people, we don't want to give a clear yes/no on this anymore.
Let me try to summarize the principles of the US visa process and then tell you where the pain points are. You can then draw your own conclusion on whether to obtain an M-1 visa or not.
First off, the principle is that everyone entering the US has to have a visa. M-1, M-2, B-1, whatever. However, since the US receives so many visitors from Europe and a few other 'western' countries, the process of having all these people apply for a visa would be too involved and costly.
So the US has invented the "Visa Waiver Programme" (VWP). IF you are from any of the qualifying countries, IF you are not a terrorist, AIDS patient or any of the other things that are asked about on the green form, IF you arrive in the US by a scheduled airline or boat service, or overland, and IF your purpose is short-term business or tourism you can apply for the VWP scheme by filling in the green card they hand you in the aircraft. It is then finally up to the friendly INS officer at the airport to decide whether you indeed qualify, and are admitted under the VWP program.
If you do not qualify for the VWP program you have to get a visa of some sort. This means presenting yourself at the embassy, filling in forms, depositing fingerprints and money, and waiting a few days for your passport to be returned. Takes about three hours in total, plus travel time, and getting an appointment might take two months in busy periods, depending also on the type of visa you require.
There are several visa types. One of the visa types is a "tourist visa". This is given to people who visit the US as a tourist but do not apply for the VWP program, for instance because they are not from a qualifying country, or for instance if they enter the US in a way that's not allowed under the VWP (by private aircraft for instance).
(The reason for the latter is that under the VWP, if the INS officer deems that you do not qualify, the airline *has to* fly you back to your country of origin - airlines have to sign contracts to this effect with the US government before they're allowed to transport VWP-qualifying people to the US. This isn't possible for private aircraft, hence people flying in on private aircraft automatically do not qualify for the VWP.)
The most important visa type in the context of flying training is the M-1 visa. This is for short-term study and is *required* if your main purpose for visiting the US is getting trained in something. Now "main purpose" is a rather loose definition and for vocational studies, is interpreted as "more than 18 hours of practical work" per week or "22 hours of classroom studies".
The big issue, to which nobody has been able to answer sufficiently, is whether this 18-hour interpretation also applies to flight training, and if so, what is included in this 18 hours: actual flying only, or pre- and post-flight briefs too? Flight preparation? Ground studies? Self studies?
In any case, if you fly to the US solely to obtain your FAA PPL (and maybe have some fun on the side) it can be argued (and the INS officer will probably do just that) your main purpose, according to the immigration law, is study, not tourism or business, and you therefore have to have an M-1 visa. He can, I think, brush aside the 18-hour requirement as being not applicable in this case. And without a visa, that means you're going home on the next flight.
If you want to go to the US under the VWP for flight training, I'd make damn sure that the INS agrees with this beforehand, by getting their specific interpretation of the law in writing, applicable to your situation. And, obviously, if you don't qualify for the VWP program outright (I have no idea about Norways status for instance) the difference between getting a tourist visa and a student visa is negligeable and not worth this discussion.
Oh, and if you think about dodging the question and just telling the INS that you're going to be a tourist for three weeks, think again. Although the TSA doesn't check your visa status outright (as I understand), it does say in their regulations that they can withhold training permission (and worse) if they find you training without the proper immigration status. This can have serious repercussions, not just for you but for the school as well.
Well, I talked with the US embassy. Here is the response: "If the primary purpose of your travel is to obtain a private pilot’s license, then you need to find a school that will be able to issue the forms necessary for a student visa. If the studies are incidental to your reasons for being in the US, such you have a winter home in the US and will take the classes as part of your vacation, then you can travel on a tourist visa"
Explore,
If you owned a Winter home, you would be paying US taxes.. etc..
In your case, you made it quite clear that your visit to Florida was solely for Flight Training.. so you should get the correct Visa.
Also, Sunstate are NOT approved by the USCIS to sponsor students for a Visa for Flight Training, Hence why the carefully make no mention of any visa requirements on their website..
How do I know - because I called them and asked.
So they will tell you all sorts of ways as to how to get Flight Training with them without a Visa.
At the end of the day, it will be you that the USCIS hold responsible - not the Flight School.
Also - Sunstate's application form form states this which you might want to be aware of:
A $300 deposit is required with this application and then an additional $2,500 due upon arrival, prior to your first lesson
Firstly Hello,
New to the forum and flying but have enjoyed looking through your posts.
Could you help with a few questions?
I have started reading the study books and was thinking of flight training in the US partly because of the price and the better weather and also for a 3-4 week adventure (Dorset can be very dull) had planned to get ground school done before going.
Is the Faa ppl acepted for flying in Europe and if so is it an easier qualification to obtain?
From what I've read it seems to be, but would be nice to clarify.
Thanks
John
Last edited by JAKL : 27th September 2008 at 16:08.
Reason: Just thought of another question: I'm taking my daughters to NY in October for a week on holiday. Would it be poosible to organize visa's just for my training whilst there? possibly easier than from t
The FAA PPL is accepted by the UK CAA for a G-reg plane, for worldwide VFR flight. This acceptance is automatic.
I don't know of another European country that does that. Others do various forms of validation but with various restrictions - largely to protect their domestic flight training business.
Flight training is NOT a holiday however. It is hard work. If you go to the USA for a holiday, hoping to pick up a PPL, forget it.
You also need to get the writtens and the medical out of the way before you go out there - unless you are going for quite a number of weeks.
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Quote:
Is the Faa ppl acepted for flying in Europe and if so is it an easier qualification to obtain?
From what I've read it seems to be, but would be nice to clarify.
It is absolutely not easier to obtain an FAA PPL. In fact, i would say that it's easier to obtain a CAA/JAR FCL licence. I know, i have done both.
I'm now working on my FAA-IR, the written material might be less, the practical level is very high, you end up being a descent pilot with FAA licences.
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