Airstrip
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Airstrip
Has anyone ever built an airstrip? Or know of anyone who has? Know the cost of construction, cost of maintenance, Cost of facilities (If any) material used for the runway. Fees they charge for landing/parking for foreign (Not owned by him, family or friends) aircraft (If any). Dimensions of their strip (or the average private strip)
Note: I know you want to give me the "There's lots of requirements and restrictions and fees and on and on and on". I'm keeping the legal requirements out of this for the most part.
Note: I know you want to give me the "There's lots of requirements and restrictions and fees and on and on and on". I'm keeping the legal requirements out of this for the most part.
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i've built one. 800m tarmac and completely drained. PM me for more details and I can send you some pictures. I also know a few legal loopholes that may come in handy to you.....
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Dimensions of their strip (or the average private strip)
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I do not think there is really an average private strip. I have flown into strips less than 400 meters that you could only land in one direction and take off the other because of trees and slope, I have also flown into ones over 1500 meters that could take a small jet.
I also know a few legal loopholes that may come in handy to you.....
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I would guess that the # of 400m strips one could find would exceed the # of 800m strips by around 100 to 1.
This is simply a consequence of the way fields have been divided up by farmers over many years, and hedges have grown up on the lines and these are difficult to remove (overtly
)
Unfortunately, the types of planes that can operate safely from 400m grass are generally unusuable for going anywhere seriously, IFR. The very few exceptions would be a C182 (especially with the STOL kit), or some equally rare type of unpressurised turboprop.
I don't see a problem with setting up a good number of 300-400m strips around the UK, but - if done in response to GA airfields closing - this would also mean the GA scene shrinking to a level where nobody gets any utility value out of flying and it is just a "pop up for a little local on a nice day" kind of hobby. This would also result in the wholesale collapse of PPL flight training and we would get more or less what already exists in much of Europe.
This is simply a consequence of the way fields have been divided up by farmers over many years, and hedges have grown up on the lines and these are difficult to remove (overtly
)Unfortunately, the types of planes that can operate safely from 400m grass are generally unusuable for going anywhere seriously, IFR. The very few exceptions would be a C182 (especially with the STOL kit), or some equally rare type of unpressurised turboprop.
I don't see a problem with setting up a good number of 300-400m strips around the UK, but - if done in response to GA airfields closing - this would also mean the GA scene shrinking to a level where nobody gets any utility value out of flying and it is just a "pop up for a little local on a nice day" kind of hobby. This would also result in the wholesale collapse of PPL flight training and we would get more or less what already exists in much of Europe.
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airstrips
Hi,
The ANO sets out what is required for a licenced strip but you only need that if you go for a licence. for an un-licenced strip 500 X 25m is not a bad size with no obsticles at either end, if there are you will need a longer strip.
I built my airstrip 20 years ago, the first thing you will have to watch out for is if you let others use it for more than 28 days in any one year, you will need planning permission, even if you only fly from it once a day of the 28 days.
I found that everything was fine until I set up a Flying Club and let other people use it, the local council were down on me like a shot.
If you have used a site continously for more that 10 years you can then apply for a 'Certificate of Lawful use' it is better than planning Permisson as there are no conditions, but you must prove a continued use.
I have a great deal of expeience now over this subject and I am still fighting the local Council to this day.
Hope this is of help.
Dynamic flyer
The ANO sets out what is required for a licenced strip but you only need that if you go for a licence. for an un-licenced strip 500 X 25m is not a bad size with no obsticles at either end, if there are you will need a longer strip.
I built my airstrip 20 years ago, the first thing you will have to watch out for is if you let others use it for more than 28 days in any one year, you will need planning permission, even if you only fly from it once a day of the 28 days.
I found that everything was fine until I set up a Flying Club and let other people use it, the local council were down on me like a shot.
If you have used a site continously for more that 10 years you can then apply for a 'Certificate of Lawful use' it is better than planning Permisson as there are no conditions, but you must prove a continued use.
I have a great deal of expeience now over this subject and I am still fighting the local Council to this day.
Hope this is of help.
Dynamic flyer
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airstrips
Hi,
I forgot to mention the £££££ bit. The cost of running an airstip may vary depending on the facilities that you provide. My airstip is quite a humble affair, one 800m stip & one 500m totaling 40 acres of grass, Hangars,Clubroom etc. it still takes a lot of time & money to keep.
The returns are quite low for the amount of work you have to put in. in the 20 years that I have had my Airstrip I would say that my other business ventures have subsidised it by an average of some £5000.00 per year. so if you want to create a small business, just buy a big one and then buy an airfield, it won't be long before your big businees gets smaller !
Regards,
Dynamic flyer
I forgot to mention the £££££ bit. The cost of running an airstip may vary depending on the facilities that you provide. My airstip is quite a humble affair, one 800m stip & one 500m totaling 40 acres of grass, Hangars,Clubroom etc. it still takes a lot of time & money to keep.
The returns are quite low for the amount of work you have to put in. in the 20 years that I have had my Airstrip I would say that my other business ventures have subsidised it by an average of some £5000.00 per year. so if you want to create a small business, just buy a big one and then buy an airfield, it won't be long before your big businees gets smaller !
Regards,
Dynamic flyer
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Thanks for the info, I will be using the AN(OT)O (A bit different from the ANO I assume?) "so if you want to create a small business, just buy a big one and then buy an airfield, it won't be long before your big businees gets smaller !" Hmmm, wonder how the lotto's looking right now? Guess my Colombia drug trade air strip isn't looking so promising.
Last edited by nano404; 27th May 2007 at 20:02.
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I don't believe the UK planning system is open to plain "bag of money" corruption, like say (to pick a blatent example) Spain.
The biggest hassle in the UK system is the planning committee, which is usually a bunch of well meaning politicans who can't read a drawing, have never been to the site, and the way for a clever planning consultant to play them is to pick the one who objects most vigorously (usually a Conservative councillor) and do a deal with him under which the application which bothers him most gets sacrificed (or resubmitted with modifications) in return for him not voting down a dozen house extensions and conservatories.
It's possible that plain bribes do exist but they would be rare and bribing the one man would not be useful except in unusual circumstances. I am familiar with two Cons councillors who have been canvassing locals to turn up at the cttee meeting and object, and have been harrassing architects to chuck in the job and delay the project. The former is certainly illegal. However, when you have mad people like this in the system, bribes aren't likely to work.
An application for an airfield, or even a private grass strip with a shed and just a few movements per week, would be controversial all round and even the Lib Dems (those that bother to turn up) are likely to vote against.
Such a job would have to be planned from the outset to
- not contravene local planning policy (obviously)
- probably fail with the planning officer
- definitely fail in the planning committee
- will definitely go to appeal (takes a year nowadays)
- will probably be granted on appeal
- will almost certainly be granted at a counsel-represented DofE enquiry
- most likely you will have to apply for more movements etc initially so there is room to negotiate downwards along the way
Planning cost? About £20k plus expert evidence like noise surveys. But it is possible, from what I can find out. The biggest problem is that everybody thinks it isn't possible, so there is very little overt precedent and the country is full of strips operating under the 28-day rule which, if not breached by a wide margin, is frankly not enough because 1 flight every fortnight is barely enough to keep the engine oiled.
It would help if
- there was road access (getting planning for an access road is hard)
- a nearby major road makes noise, which helps
- a major road too close is a problem because a plane "will" crash onto it
- pick a field with no nearby houses
- pick a field with a shed already there
- if you need to remove a hedge (to get the length) that's a big problem, but if that hedge disappears before the planning application goes in......
Always remember with planning: residents' complains mean little unless they identify specific areas of planning policy. If you don't breach planning policy in the application, and are ready to go to appeal from day 1, they can complain as much as they want.
With a planning consultant who knows his stuff, planning policy will not be breached, but you need somebody who does a bit more than conservatories...
Most smart planning consultants work using quiet deals and connections (often not disclosed to the client) and due to the controversial nature of this kind of project it can be difficult to find one who is local and will take on the project. A firm of planning solicitors might take it on but their #1 man (who could be an ex chief of planning for the local authority ) probably won't handle it himself.
The biggest hassle in the UK system is the planning committee, which is usually a bunch of well meaning politicans who can't read a drawing, have never been to the site, and the way for a clever planning consultant to play them is to pick the one who objects most vigorously (usually a Conservative councillor) and do a deal with him under which the application which bothers him most gets sacrificed (or resubmitted with modifications) in return for him not voting down a dozen house extensions and conservatories.
It's possible that plain bribes do exist but they would be rare and bribing the one man would not be useful except in unusual circumstances. I am familiar with two Cons councillors who have been canvassing locals to turn up at the cttee meeting and object, and have been harrassing architects to chuck in the job and delay the project. The former is certainly illegal. However, when you have mad people like this in the system, bribes aren't likely to work.
An application for an airfield, or even a private grass strip with a shed and just a few movements per week, would be controversial all round and even the Lib Dems (those that bother to turn up) are likely to vote against.
Such a job would have to be planned from the outset to
- not contravene local planning policy (obviously)
- probably fail with the planning officer
- definitely fail in the planning committee
- will definitely go to appeal (takes a year nowadays)
- will probably be granted on appeal
- will almost certainly be granted at a counsel-represented DofE enquiry
- most likely you will have to apply for more movements etc initially so there is room to negotiate downwards along the way
Planning cost? About £20k plus expert evidence like noise surveys. But it is possible, from what I can find out. The biggest problem is that everybody thinks it isn't possible, so there is very little overt precedent and the country is full of strips operating under the 28-day rule which, if not breached by a wide margin, is frankly not enough because 1 flight every fortnight is barely enough to keep the engine oiled.
It would help if
- there was road access (getting planning for an access road is hard)
- a nearby major road makes noise, which helps
- a major road too close is a problem because a plane "will" crash onto it
- pick a field with no nearby houses
- pick a field with a shed already there
- if you need to remove a hedge (to get the length) that's a big problem, but if that hedge disappears before the planning application goes in......
Always remember with planning: residents' complains mean little unless they identify specific areas of planning policy. If you don't breach planning policy in the application, and are ready to go to appeal from day 1, they can complain as much as they want.
With a planning consultant who knows his stuff, planning policy will not be breached, but you need somebody who does a bit more than conservatories...
Most smart planning consultants work using quiet deals and connections (often not disclosed to the client) and due to the controversial nature of this kind of project it can be difficult to find one who is local and will take on the project. A firm of planning solicitors might take it on but their #1 man (who could be an ex chief of planning for the local authority
) probably won't handle it himself.
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Ahh, seems I forgot to submit my response, anyway, this wouldnt happen to be it? (Dolly's Grove)
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/cgi...gi?siteid=5023
At 800m, with the perfect conditions (no wind, dry surface) you could land a Cessna Mustang there with 70m to spare, minimum, taking off requires 948m but if you get the engines running at full speed while braked then try to take off you should make it. Slightly risky but should be a fun experience. (Also, I'm assuming the place is paved with asphalt down to the 'T')
Only one in every 60 landings .
Who cares about noise though
, no one here, at least for now.
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/cgi...gi?siteid=5023
At 800m, with the perfect conditions (no wind, dry surface) you could land a Cessna Mustang there with 70m to spare, minimum, taking off requires 948m but if you get the engines running at full speed while braked then try to take off you should make it. Slightly risky but should be a fun experience
. (Also, I'm assuming the place is paved with asphalt down to the 'T')
- a major road too close is a problem because a plane "will" crash onto it
.Who cares about noise though
, no one here, at least for now.
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- if you need to remove a hedge (to get the length) that's a big problem, but if that hedge disappears before the planning application goes in......
A bit pedantic perhaps (especially as the original advice is hypothetical) but if acted on, not a clever route to go.
DeepC