Quickies while Flying
Which brings me on to bŁoody 'kneeboards' and 'PLOGs'.....
I just use an A5 spiral top notebook with a biro shoved though the spiral. It'd be nice if someone sold a small, basic aluminium board which held a standard (e.g. WHS) A5 book and a pen or two and had a proper leg strap, not a weedy piece of elastic and velcro. All you can find in the Wannabe shops is either hinged padded foldy-uppy things with plastic insert pages, morse code and quadrantal diagrams, stopwatch holders etc - and those overcomplicated 'PLOG' forms. I do the planning on the ground, then china the leg headings and times and visual fix times, plus average w/v and max drift onto the chart. Work out any revised ETA in flight using the laminated back of the checklist (which also has a half-mill scale on one edge) and a chinagraph.
I hate those awful permanent pens with removable tops. They require 2 hands - what do you do with the top in flight? I've seen students try to stick them in their mouths - which guarantees a radio call.....
Chinagraph or clicky ballpoint (especially the WHS ones with a rubber grip which is exactly 10 miles on a half-mill!) are both topless.
Topless is the only way - which, I guess, brings us back to 'Quickies while flying'...
?
I just use an A5 spiral top notebook with a biro shoved though the spiral. It'd be nice if someone sold a small, basic aluminium board which held a standard (e.g. WHS) A5 book and a pen or two and had a proper leg strap, not a weedy piece of elastic and velcro. All you can find in the Wannabe shops is either hinged padded foldy-uppy things with plastic insert pages, morse code and quadrantal diagrams, stopwatch holders etc - and those overcomplicated 'PLOG' forms. I do the planning on the ground, then china the leg headings and times and visual fix times, plus average w/v and max drift onto the chart. Work out any revised ETA in flight using the laminated back of the checklist (which also has a half-mill scale on one edge) and a chinagraph.
I hate those awful permanent pens with removable tops. They require 2 hands - what do you do with the top in flight? I've seen students try to stick them in their mouths - which guarantees a radio call.....
Chinagraph or clicky ballpoint (especially the WHS ones with a rubber grip which is exactly 10 miles on a half-mill!) are both topless.Topless is the only way - which, I guess, brings us back to 'Quickies while flying'...
?
Like Shytorque I too have a stash of chinagraph leads from a previous existance, but the present job often gets messy and I need a permanent marker for my kneepad, but one without a top!
Sharpie RT: its a clicky permanent felt tip. Most office stores stock them.
Sharpie RT: its a clicky permanent felt tip. Most office stores stock them.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagel why don't you go into production? Or point an FI in the direction of some extra cash.
Local fabricators with a flow cutter and get them to cut out 10 or more rounded rectangles of your design (more you do the cheaper it is). Remembering a couple of slots for some manly elastic.
If you really want to go for it get them to cut and bend some plate to form a surface for your thigh with the elastic holes in it instead.
Rivet the thigh bit on underneith.
Rivet a suitable clip to the top of it.
Using the handel of a McFLurry spoon, cut the spoon off then glue the handel to the top or underneith what ever takes your fancy, left or right handed versions are dead easy. Thats your pen holder if you want more pens eat more ice cream.
Then ask a girl whats the best way of attaching the elastic.
Depending what buckles etc you use with the strap I can't see it costing more than 35 quid.
Metal 10 quid
Flow jet and bending 15 quid each.
Rivets, clip etc 5 quid
McFlurry 1.50 (the ice cream is a bonus)
Elastic velcro etc 5 quid.
If you use hillwalking quick releases instead of velcro maybe 35-40. And its got to be better than the 20-40 quid plastic jobs which fall to pieces after 6 months.
Then flog them in the club or on ebay for 50 quid or paint them mat green and flog them for 60 quid (you could do a special pink one for a certain person.). I sould imagine there might be quite a market for them especially as they might help rotary pilots as well.
If you don't want to do it and there is PPL out thier that owns a Fabrication shop I will be quite happy to knock some drawings up for 2 quid to the Poppy appeal per unit. There is also a need for just a plain AL A4 board with a clip on the top for IR work.
Local fabricators with a flow cutter and get them to cut out 10 or more rounded rectangles of your design (more you do the cheaper it is). Remembering a couple of slots for some manly elastic.
If you really want to go for it get them to cut and bend some plate to form a surface for your thigh with the elastic holes in it instead.
Rivet the thigh bit on underneith.
Rivet a suitable clip to the top of it.
Using the handel of a McFLurry spoon, cut the spoon off then glue the handel to the top or underneith what ever takes your fancy, left or right handed versions are dead easy. Thats your pen holder if you want more pens eat more ice cream.
Then ask a girl whats the best way of attaching the elastic.
Depending what buckles etc you use with the strap I can't see it costing more than 35 quid.
Metal 10 quid
Flow jet and bending 15 quid each.
Rivets, clip etc 5 quid
McFlurry 1.50 (the ice cream is a bonus)
Elastic velcro etc 5 quid.
If you use hillwalking quick releases instead of velcro maybe 35-40. And its got to be better than the 20-40 quid plastic jobs which fall to pieces after 6 months.
Then flog them in the club or on ebay for 50 quid or paint them mat green and flog them for 60 quid (you could do a special pink one for a certain person.). I sould imagine there might be quite a market for them especially as they might help rotary pilots as well.
If you don't want to do it and there is PPL out thier that owns a Fabrication shop I will be quite happy to knock some drawings up for 2 quid to the Poppy appeal per unit. There is also a need for just a plain AL A4 board with a clip on the top for IR work.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thinking about it.
I will nip down to a sheet metal shop tomorrow and price it out making some A5 ones with a thigh form on the bottom. And also some plain metal A4 IR knee boards.
Whats your wish list for it?
How thick do you want the strap?
Do you want elastic and velcro or webbing with a quick release?
How much grip do you want the clip to have?
What surface do you want? Dipped in plastic or plain metal?
A McFlurry is something that the peasants eat in McDonalds. It comes with a tapered plastic spoon which is hollow. It is the perfect size for a pen holde. I can't claim the invention rights for using them for this. They have been glued to various aircraft I have flown.
I will nip down to a sheet metal shop tomorrow and price it out making some A5 ones with a thigh form on the bottom. And also some plain metal A4 IR knee boards.
Whats your wish list for it?
How thick do you want the strap?
Do you want elastic and velcro or webbing with a quick release?
How much grip do you want the clip to have?
What surface do you want? Dipped in plastic or plain metal?
A McFlurry is something that the peasants eat in McDonalds. It comes with a tapered plastic spoon which is hollow. It is the perfect size for a pen holde. I can't claim the invention rights for using them for this. They have been glued to various aircraft I have flown.
Webbing with a quick release sounds good!
Clip should be a u-shaped spring thing to trap the spiral:
(That's my old one before I got fed up with it and the feeble 25mm knicker elastic and velcro strap fell apart! You can see I ripped the useless bits off!
Roughly 150 mm wide if you include some sort of pen grip thing (single or double), by about 230 mm high.
Plastic dipped - blokish black or princess pink would be fine. Strap about 40mm wide?
Clip should be a u-shaped spring thing to trap the spiral:
(That's my old one before I got fed up with it and the feeble 25mm knicker elastic and velcro strap fell apart! You can see I ripped the useless bits off!
Roughly 150 mm wide if you include some sort of pen grip thing (single or double), by about 230 mm high.
Plastic dipped - blokish black or princess pink would be fine. Strap about 40mm wide?
Chocks Away!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester Barton
Age: 54
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe it's frozen stuff resembling ice cream. The spoon that comes with it is used for 'dosing' things into it.
An Alternative from Boots at Ł1.40
An update on Quickes again, we went into Boots yesterday to look to see if there are any other alternative products. The "Quickies" sold in the particular Boots were at Ł1.99, but they sell their own brand "Conditioning Nail Polish Remover Pads" (15 Pads) at Ł1.40.
I bought some of the Boots pads (or should I say, I slipped them into my wife's basket ). Just tried them on my chart, and the pads are about half the area of the Quickies, and they seem 'over wet' so they do wipe away the permanent marks on the chart brilliantly, but then you need something else to mop up the inky solution.
Not Flammable
A correction to my original post the Quickies (and the Boots equivalant by the way) are both "Acetone Free" and contain Butyrolactone. Butyrolactone is a common industrial solvent which is stable, low odour (low volatility) and is not classed flammable (by the US classification, "Flammability 1") unless heated. It is obviously wise to take as much precaution with these products as the ladies who use it (and some gents I'm sure) by making sure you have adequate ventilation for health reasons.
As I'm still a boy at heart, I lit one of these, and I was very unimpressed. Granted, the vapour was probably above the HEL (Higher Explosive Limit).
An Alternative from Boots at Ł1.40
An update on Quickes again, we went into Boots yesterday to look to see if there are any other alternative products. The "Quickies" sold in the particular Boots were at Ł1.99, but they sell their own brand "Conditioning Nail Polish Remover Pads" (15 Pads) at Ł1.40.
I bought some of the Boots pads (or should I say, I slipped them into my wife's basket
). Just tried them on my chart, and the pads are about half the area of the Quickies, and they seem 'over wet' so they do wipe away the permanent marks on the chart brilliantly, but then you need something else to mop up the inky solution.Not Flammable
A correction to my original post the Quickies (and the Boots equivalant by the way) are both "Acetone Free" and contain Butyrolactone. Butyrolactone is a common industrial solvent which is stable, low odour (low volatility) and is not classed flammable (by the US classification, "Flammability 1") unless heated. It is obviously wise to take as much precaution with these products as the ladies who use it (and some gents I'm sure) by making sure you have adequate ventilation for health reasons.
As I'm still a boy at heart, I lit one of these, and I was very unimpressed. Granted, the vapour was probably above the HEL (Higher Explosive Limit).
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And the strap?
Do you think one thick one would be best say 40mm or one top and one bottom at 15mm?
I will suss out 3 options,
A plain one without any thigh form and strap/s? attached underneith with the pen holder on top. I will make the pen holder bit and the clip multi handed with holes to suit both handed people. And just leave it so the user bolts the bits on how they like with M3 grip nuts and bolts. Also allows people to replace bits when the springs go on the pen holders or the clip goes. I can also put a couple of holes down the side in case people want to side grip thier paper.
A thigh form one strap/s through the form and pen holder underneith again with the holes to suit either hand.
And a A4 drilled for sideways or up down with again some holes for a pen clip either side.
H'mm just to note if I do start making these things a suitable cut of any profits will go to the poppy appeal or the RNLI or we can make them officail PPrune products and Danny can have his cut.
Do you think one thick one would be best say 40mm or one top and one bottom at 15mm?
I will suss out 3 options,
A plain one without any thigh form and strap/s? attached underneith with the pen holder on top. I will make the pen holder bit and the clip multi handed with holes to suit both handed people. And just leave it so the user bolts the bits on how they like with M3 grip nuts and bolts. Also allows people to replace bits when the springs go on the pen holders or the clip goes. I can also put a couple of holes down the side in case people want to side grip thier paper.
A thigh form one strap/s through the form and pen holder underneith again with the holes to suit either hand.
And a A4 drilled for sideways or up down with again some holes for a pen clip either side.
H'mm just to note if I do start making these things a suitable cut of any profits will go to the poppy appeal or the RNLI or we can make them officail PPrune products and Danny can have his cut.
Chocks Away!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester Barton
Age: 54
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you need a strap at all?
I just glued (With Uhu glue) some of that anti-slip rubbery matting stuff to the underside of my ordinary A4 clipboard, my pen clips (using its own clip) on the bit that sticks out for the clipboard used for hanging it up.
The non-slip bit, available from the RNIB (for example) or on good sized rolls from the likes of Woolworths, and if you have them in your neck of the woods Wilkinsons.
The clipboard doesn't shift for me during normal or utility manoevers (not tried it for spins though).
My stop watch I attach to the clip bit of the clipboard with a loop of elastic material.
I just glued (With Uhu glue) some of that anti-slip rubbery matting stuff to the underside of my ordinary A4 clipboard, my pen clips (using its own clip) on the bit that sticks out for the clipboard used for hanging it up.
The non-slip bit, available from the RNIB (for example) or on good sized rolls from the likes of Woolworths, and if you have them in your neck of the woods Wilkinsons.
The clipboard doesn't shift for me during normal or utility manoevers (not tried it for spins though).
My stop watch I attach to the clip bit of the clipboard with a loop of elastic material.
Chocks Away!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester Barton
Age: 54
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you just flip it over and try writing on it.
The boards are going to be plate metal. And its easier to have both sides covered with the same stuff. Also means that if the covering wears out on one side you can just take the bolts out and flip it over and start afresh.
The boards are going to be plate metal. And its easier to have both sides covered with the same stuff. Also means that if the covering wears out on one side you can just take the bolts out and flip it over and start afresh.
Chocks Away!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester Barton
Age: 54
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No mine is the "bobbly variety" of non-slip map (it's got holes in it) a bit like this:
The RNIB link was for a Dycem material which is smooth it appears which also I suppose would be easier to write on
The RNIB link was for a Dycem material which is smooth it appears which also I suppose would be easier to write on
Chocks Away!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester Barton
Age: 54
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mad_Jock,
From RNIB website:
This implies that this Dycem stuff is fine for writing on. 
From RNIB website:
Dycem non-slip mats help children to concentrate on the academic or fun elements of activities eg. Stabilising writing paper, toys, games or puzzles as well as avoiding sliding elbows during play or writing.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right thats sorted then.
I am quite looking forward to getting it sorted tomorrow.
Think I will suss out the two easy ones first.
An A4 board covered both sides for IR. (Because thats the one I will be using)
An A5 with 40mm web strap covered both sides so it sticks to your trousers so the strap won't have to cut your blood off to keep it in one place.
Any ideas how many of them I should make? I will see how much it is to setup the flow jet I have a suspiscion that once it's ready to go each one will be buttons on top of the metal.
I can't see them being more than 25 quid for the A4 board and 30quid for the A5.
I am quite looking forward to getting it sorted tomorrow.
Think I will suss out the two easy ones first.
An A4 board covered both sides for IR. (Because thats the one I will be using)
An A5 with 40mm web strap covered both sides so it sticks to your trousers so the strap won't have to cut your blood off to keep it in one place.
Any ideas how many of them I should make? I will see how much it is to setup the flow jet I have a suspiscion that once it's ready to go each one will be buttons on top of the metal.
I can't see them being more than 25 quid for the A4 board and 30quid for the A5.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 53
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MJ - Excellent
I can see the ad campaign now:
Designed by instructors For future instructors......
or
It looks crap but it works.............
or if transair end up selling it.
"Never get lost again....."
or
"Now modified to include the GPS mounting bracket and handy fire extinguisher holder"
The schools are just as guilty of selling sh1te to students, they all get their monthly visit from pooleys to stock up on "Circuit pattern joining computers" I suppose if people arn't flying their aircraft they need to make a few quid somewhere
I can see the ad campaign now:
Designed by instructors For future instructors......
or
It looks crap but it works.............
or if transair end up selling it.
"Never get lost again....."
or
"Now modified to include the GPS mounting bracket and handy fire extinguisher holder"
The schools are just as guilty of selling sh1te to students, they all get their monthly visit from pooleys to stock up on "Circuit pattern joining computers" I suppose if people arn't flying their aircraft they need to make a few quid somewhere
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sourced some of the high stick stuff in sticky back roll. Sent an email to try and get a sample. Looks like its going to be royal blue or yellow.
pen clip holders are a piece of piss.
Nuts and bolts will be dealt with locally.
Need to find a decent spring clip for the top.
Might have to do a special instructor/captain version with a bead around the outside so you don't cut the students/FO to the bone when when you belt them with it.
BEagle they will be the top end prices. The problem is the setup costs of getting the sheet cut. Once I have done it once it will cost alot less.
The webbing and clip will cost 2 quid, pen clip 3 quid, 4 quid for the covering, document clip for the top 2 quid. The rest is the setup costs and metal. I very much doudt though we can do it for 15 quid.
pen clip holders are a piece of piss.
Nuts and bolts will be dealt with locally.
Need to find a decent spring clip for the top.
Might have to do a special instructor/captain version with a bead around the outside so you don't cut the students/FO to the bone when when you belt them with it.
BEagle they will be the top end prices. The problem is the setup costs of getting the sheet cut. Once I have done it once it will cost alot less.
The webbing and clip will cost 2 quid, pen clip 3 quid, 4 quid for the covering, document clip for the top 2 quid. The rest is the setup costs and metal. I very much doudt though we can do it for 15 quid.
Last edited by mad_jock; 7th Jan 2007 at 15:17. Reason: Just found a cheaper option for the webbing and clip