I've just noticed that the thread has been moved, were you moderating right from the start when the thread was in Non-Airline Forums, Flying Instructors & Examiners?
Nope. If you discover anything censored again, will you please email me with some details so I can look into it. If you have been censored then you should have at least been told about it by someone.
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Private Flying Forum Moderator.
Me thinks any anti-WAC chat from BAFC staff is no more than 'in the best possible taste' stirred into something more sinister by chinese whispers and bar talk.
As far as I know all the staff of WAC and BAFC get on just fine - one big happy family (present directors excepted...).
Me thinks any anti-WAC chat from BAFC staff is no more than 'in the best possible taste' stirred into something more sinister by chinese whispers and bar talk.
As far as I know all the staff of WAC and BAFC get on just fine - one big happy family (present directors excepted...).
You're probably right; sorry my post (being my first ever on PPRuNe) caused such a stir. As I said, I'm just going by my own small bit of experience!
Aye it is a shame about WAC, and there are far too many rumours going around about whats happening.
I have flown at WAC since last year, i did my PPL there. Im currently doing the ATPL groundschool training at oxford but i still plan to go back to WAC for my MER, CPL and IR.
As far as im concerned with it all, when i went up to the club the other week i asked what was happening. The whole response i got is nothing is changing... There are no major changes planned for the next year, and all the ex directors are staying on for 3 years at least, including Dicky.
Nothing is changing relating to the fleet, it is still sticking to cessnas, although theres hope the aging twins might get replaced
As far as ive been told so far WAC is not changing into one of these guinea pig farm ATPL schools like some of their other clubs, its just going to be branded as 'cabair at WAC' or something.
Id like to say i never got a letter about it either... lol
The idea seems to be to leave it as it is in its main entirity. Lets hope so.
What is it with pilots and resistance to change? I found nothing unusual in a company being taken over, better than going bust. I bet if you dug around there are probably very good reasons for the sale.
Whatever you may think of Cabair they are an expanding business and looking at the last accounts a very stable one. If GA is to survive then I amfraid we will have to get used to the coporate faces rather than the romantic notion of these cosy little flying clubs. Romantic notions do not pay the bills.
Take a look at the Cabair fleet, modern well equipped aircraft with a charging structure that supports proper maintance and upgrading. They are also an organisation that I would feel comfortable handing over a course fee up front.
scottiedog
The 'nothing will change' has been said so many times it must be true - or, like one member of staff was apparently told - 'unless they decide to change it'...
I'm sure that everyone that works there really hopes that things won't change but Cabair aren't known for having that high on their list of credentials.
As for the 3 ex-directors staying on for '3 years at least' - you might be mistaken on that one, although my sources tell me that those 3 (and any non-director staff that felt obliged to leave) would certainly be sadly missed around Booker.
bose-x
If/when you've been directly involved in GA in the UK long enough (ie 'in the industry' rather than a 'partaker') you may realise that all you say is about as untrue as it gets!
PS A quick edit to include the immortal phrase: "all that glitters is not gold"....
Last edited by smarthawke : 14th October 2006 at 02:22.
I have lost count of the number of times I (and fellow non-Cabair flyers) have been "cut up" and had to go around in the circuit (at Denham) by Cabair students+instructors returning from the local area and busting into the circuit pattern straight to final. So much for the "conforming to the pattern of traffic formed.." rule.
The circuit can be extremely busy with three simultaneous patterns in use. The boys and girls in the tower at EGTB will not stand for any nonsense
I should quickly edit your last post to the correct order of 'girls and boys' if I were you or you may never get another clearance again!! Never lose sight of the all conquering girl power........
scottiedog
The 'nothing will change' has been said so many times it must be true - or, like one member of staff was apparently told - 'unless they decide to change it'...
I'm sure that everyone that works there really hopes that things won't change but Cabair aren't known for having that high on their list of credentials.
As for the 3 ex-directors staying on for '3 years at least' - you might be mistaken on that one, although my sources tell me that those 3 (and any non-director staff that felt obliged to leave) would certainly be sadly missed around Booker.
bose-x
If/when you've been directly involved in GA in the UK long enough (ie 'in the industry' rather than a 'partaker') you may realise that all you say is about as untrue as it gets!
PS A quick edit to include the immortal phrase: "all that glitters is not gold"....
I am sorry I do not see the point of your comment to me? My point was that all that glitters is not gold.
Cabair are not everyones cup of tea and are certainly not mine. I fly from an uncontrolled strip and buy the aircraft I want to play with.
However looking at it from a business perspective (and I am pretty good at making money in business) they are stable and achieve economies of scale. They generally provide desirable aircraft for training and rental and charge a rate that sustains the business not one the reflects other schools endless round of failures.
I am sure non of the companies I aquired and often dismantled over the years were always ahppy about it. But thats business.
Oh and be careful about assuming my providence when it comes to aviation.
scottiedog
The 'nothing will change' has been said so many times it must be true - or, like one member of staff was apparently told - 'unless they decide to change it'...
I'm sure that everyone that works there really hopes that things won't change but Cabair aren't known for having that high on their list of credentials.
As for the 3 ex-directors staying on for '3 years at least' - you might be mistaken on that one, although my sources tell me that those 3 (and any non-director staff that felt obliged to leave) would certainly be sadly missed around Booker.
I do hope that the club stays relatively the same, but the general idea i have had from everyone up there i have spoken to is that no one is leaving - after all no one will really want to leave and be unemployed. Yes there must be bad feeling up there, but theres also positive vibes coming from WAC.
As far as its been made out to me WAC isnt to be branded as a cabair airline prep school like say cranfield, and theres still other share holders along with cabair, so not all decisions will be purely Cabair. From a business perspective yes they are out to make money, but look at their track record and how many people fly with them out of there zillions odd schools - they must be doing something right.
At the end of the day in my mind it can only be a good thing that theyve taken over - cabair have always been good at keeping good fleets of aircraft, and it would be nice to see this maintained.
Also I know all of the staff up there and 99%of the instructors at WAC, and none seem to be leaving, so really i dont think in the next year or so much will change at all. To be honest if the staff stays the same on a whole i dont think it will feel any different, its the people that make the atmosphere.
Like with everything in aviation changes cost money, and theyre not going to want to pour money into somewhere theyve just purchased overnight. Any changes that will happen will be many many months down the line.
I do hope that the club stays relatively the same, but the general idea i have had from everyone up there i have spoken to is that no one is leaving - after all no one will really want to leave and be unemployed. Yes there must be bad feeling up there, but theres also positive vibes coming from WAC.
Also I know all of the staff up there and 99%of the instructors at WAC, and none seem to be leaving, so really i dont think in the next year or so much will change at all. To be honest if the staff stays the same on a whole i dint think it will feel any different, its the people that make the atmosphere.
Scott
The 'positive vibes' are probably the staff you have seen putting on a brave face in front of the customers, after all there is still a job to do and WAC are very professional.
As for none of the staff leaving, you are a little out of touch. There is 1 who is definitely leaving and several seriously thinking about it. As you said in your post it is the staff that make the atmosphere, and the staff are the company. Yes Cabair have bought WAC and all its assets ie aircraft/equipment, but they can't buy the staff. Of course many people will stay as it has always been a good place to work and they are hoping that things remain the same, but also others may feel Cabair is not the right company for them.
The changes probably won't happen straight away, as any new purchaser would want to see the company in action before implementing any 'improvements', but give it 6 months to a year......
The changes probably won't happen straight away, as any new purchaser would want to see the company in action before implementing any 'improvements', but give it 6 months to a year......
I totally agree, any major changes to be made im sure will be implemented or discussed within the next 6-18months.
Well i do hope the majority of the staff stays on, im flying at WAC tomorrow so hopefully i will find out a bit more of whats going on
I am a student at WAC and started in May this year and have flown about 22 hours with them. I have come across some excellent instructors and appreciate the professional and friendly approach.
I was also a bit surprised when I heard the news about Cabair taking over, but so far every thing seems to be the same. Maybe I am missing out on some of the tension as I only tend to fly on weekends.
As someone mentioned above, it is the staff that contribute to the evironment of the club, and WAC do have some excellent people. It would be foolish if Cabair came and tried to "improve" that part of the business.
I live in North London and although Elstree would be closer to get to, I still prefer to take the time to go to WAC, precisely for the warm and friendly environment.
I hope that Cabair would have the commercial sense to maintain the staff and the friendly atmosphere at WAC
If Cabair run true to form they will sit and watch for a wile not touching anything and then without warning things will change overnight.
The WAC will change and it won't be for the better very soon you will see attractive prices with lots of "add on's" that make the prices much less than attractive!, membership deals that seem very good but read the small print because the deal won't be nearly as good as it seems and as a student you are likely to end up paying to position aircraft for maintenance at your expence.................. just how much will you get out of EX 7-8 on the way to and from Elstree?
As for none of the staff leaving, you are a little out of touch. There is 1 who is definitely leaving and several seriously thinking about it.
Well i went up today and theres no talk of anyone leaving for definate, theres talk of one engineer leaving possible in a few months time, but thats nothing to do with cabair taking over.
When Cabair took over Bournemouth Flying Club there was very little change evident on the operational side for some months.
At the time, BFC had a very lively social side which was heavily supported by the majority of members who did not often fly club aircraft. Either they had their own aircraft or were just social members. This aspect of the club died very quickly and Cabair set up the bar/restaurant as a seperate business and this was open to the general public. As a flying club it all but disappeared and the restaurant and bar never seemed to be terribly busy inspite of its situation close to the threshold of 26.
I am not too familiar with the club setup at WAC but, unless Cabair have learned something, this side of the club may start to deteriorate quite quickly.
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