VFR Routes from Cannes
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VFR Routes from Cannes
Has anyone out ther got any experience of VFR routes from Cannes heading north towards the UK?
I'm going to be doing this in a couple of weeks and looking at the French VFR charts you seem to be quite hemmed in by Terrain / Restricted areas / controlled airspace.
Does anyone have any tried and tested / acceptable to ATC routings? I'm in a PA28 by the way!
I'm going to be doing this in a couple of weeks and looking at the French VFR charts you seem to be quite hemmed in by Terrain / Restricted areas / controlled airspace.
Does anyone have any tried and tested / acceptable to ATC routings? I'm in a PA28 by the way!
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The way to do serious distances over France under VFR is by following their "airway" routes; typically these are at FL065 or higher. They avoid the mass of military airspace that covers much of France, and you get easy clearances through any Class D enroute. Nav-wise one obviously flies with a GPS but these routes are based on VORs anyway which is handy as a backup.
The drawback with flying at such an altitude is that one can get snookered. If flying from the UK to France, one needs to be able to make a VFR arrival, so better be very sure of the cloudbase at the destination! If flying from France to the UK it's a lot easier because, assuming an IMC Rating, you can fly VMC on top the whole way and land with an instrument approach in the UK.
The drawback with flying at such an altitude is that one can get snookered. If flying from the UK to France, one needs to be able to make a VFR arrival, so better be very sure of the cloudbase at the destination! If flying from France to the UK it's a lot easier because, assuming an IMC Rating, you can fly VMC on top the whole way and land with an instrument approach in the UK.
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IO540, Thanks for that. As you say the wx is a big factor coupled with the terrain around Cannes. I just wondered if there was anyone out there with a tried and tested routing for that initial bit
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LFMD DCT STP DCT MTL DCT ATN DCT LFQB DCT CTL DCT BNE DCT LYD.
If bad weather over the mountains you have to fly around the coast and via Avinon and LFND or wait
If bad weather "MTL DCT ATN" fly: MTL DCT TR DCT LFLM DCT LFLH DCT LFQB.
Be carful of the mountains the winds and the ZITs.
If bad weather over the mountains you have to fly around the coast and via Avinon and LFND or wait
If bad weather "MTL DCT ATN" fly: MTL DCT TR DCT LFLM DCT LFLH DCT LFQB.
Be carful of the mountains the winds and the ZITs.
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You can't put airfields into an ICAO flight plan e.g.
DCT LFQB DCT
It works in the UK because nobody really looks at anything in a VFR flight plan.
The route I last used was
LFMD STP MTL MOU NEV MOTAL KOVAK LGL DVL SITET (UK)
SITET was the UK/French boundary and one needs the EET to it in the flight plan.
This route avoided the military airspace at FL085/095 (if I recall correctly, it does pass over one of the nuclear power station TRAs but they don't go that high) but nowadays I would try the "airway" routes first. I don't have the SIA chart handy though...
What I do remember is that I spent a lot of time in the hotel the night before with the SIA charts and the airspace booklet which comes with them, working out this route. A lower level route was very very hard, without relying on military airspace being either inactive (despite being officially active at the time) or a transit permitted. I might be excessively pessimistic on this topic and I think French pilots don't worry about it half as much... especially if they know their local mil unit and fly just locally as most probably do. Weekend flying is also much easier in France generally, with most mil stuff inactive.
DCT LFQB DCT
It works in the UK because nobody really looks at anything in a VFR flight plan.
The route I last used was
LFMD STP MTL MOU NEV MOTAL KOVAK LGL DVL SITET (UK)
SITET was the UK/French boundary and one needs the EET to it in the flight plan.
This route avoided the military airspace at FL085/095 (if I recall correctly, it does pass over one of the nuclear power station TRAs but they don't go that high) but nowadays I would try the "airway" routes first. I don't have the SIA chart handy though...
What I do remember is that I spent a lot of time in the hotel the night before with the SIA charts and the airspace booklet which comes with them, working out this route. A lower level route was very very hard, without relying on military airspace being either inactive (despite being officially active at the time) or a transit permitted. I might be excessively pessimistic on this topic and I think French pilots don't worry about it half as much... especially if they know their local mil unit and fly just locally as most probably do. Weekend flying is also much easier in France generally, with most mil stuff inactive.
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Both times that I have tried a scenic route over the mountains north of Cannes the weather has prevented me.
Cannes direct to Carpentras (near Orange) then follow the Rhone valley North worked for me. No answer from Orange so I skirted their zone. Probably added 2 minutes to the journey!
Edit to add: don't be too put off by controlled airspace or restricted zones. You are likely to be given a transit of both in France if you talk to the correct unit. The FISO will tell you who to call, or do it for you.
Cannes direct to Carpentras (near Orange) then follow the Rhone valley North worked for me. No answer from Orange so I skirted their zone. Probably added 2 minutes to the journey!
Edit to add: don't be too put off by controlled airspace or restricted zones. You are likely to be given a transit of both in France if you talk to the correct unit. The FISO will tell you who to call, or do it for you.
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The rute that I suggested avoid all mil airspace but one or two east of Paris, in any case I always was cleared but there is always the first time.
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Why make life complicated?
Last time I did it in an old C.172 in June was to exit zone going north at point 'N'.
GPS track direct to Troyes passing on top of Grenoble(Le versoud).
Fantastic flight , constant climb to about 10,000 ft and gentle descent. Still snow on the peaks and in sight of the mountain runway at Alpe d'Huez.
Best flight ever and no problems of aggro from ATC.
Last time I did it in an old C.172 in June was to exit zone going north at point 'N'.
GPS track direct to Troyes passing on top of Grenoble(Le versoud).
Fantastic flight , constant climb to about 10,000 ft and gentle descent. Still snow on the peaks and in sight of the mountain runway at Alpe d'Huez.
Best flight ever and no problems of aggro from ATC.
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Still no need to be a pessimist.
Weather very often excellent still in late Oct or early Nov.
But anyway a good plan is to fully prepare two routes for a good and poor weather day and only decide at the last minute when all the TAFS and METARS are to hand.
Weather very often excellent still in late Oct or early Nov.
But anyway a good plan is to fully prepare two routes for a good and poor weather day and only decide at the last minute when all the TAFS and METARS are to hand.
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One problem is that when planning VFR one needs to plan a route OCAS. This is what takes a lot of time in VFR planning.
A lot of people don't do that and I suppose they get lucky on transits, but you need to be assured of radio contact. Lost comms used to be common in France (nobody on the FIS frequency) but I guess it is a lot better now.
My way of doing VFR flights over terrain (assuming the plane actually has the capability to fly over it) is to pick a starting point which is fun to stay in anyway (in case you have to stay there a few days), wait for a day when there is little cloud cover over the terrain, and go straight over the top.
You get views like nothing else, and enough amazing pictures for a year's worth of screensavers.
In most mountain regions there are loads of valleys in case of engine failure.
Otherwise, any VFR route can be planned with the charts spread all over the floor and enough time. It often ends up quite ridiculous but one can usually get enough CAS transits on the day.
If one is stopping in uninteresting places, one needs to be flying a fully de-iced plane with a 25k ft ceiling, as a minimum, and this is true for both VFR and IFR.
A lot of people don't do that and I suppose they get lucky on transits, but you need to be assured of radio contact. Lost comms used to be common in France (nobody on the FIS frequency) but I guess it is a lot better now.
My way of doing VFR flights over terrain (assuming the plane actually has the capability to fly over it) is to pick a starting point which is fun to stay in anyway (in case you have to stay there a few days), wait for a day when there is little cloud cover over the terrain, and go straight over the top.
You get views like nothing else, and enough amazing pictures for a year's worth of screensavers.
In most mountain regions there are loads of valleys in case of engine failure.
Otherwise, any VFR route can be planned with the charts spread all over the floor and enough time. It often ends up quite ridiculous but one can usually get enough CAS transits on the day.
If one is stopping in uninteresting places, one needs to be flying a fully de-iced plane with a 25k ft ceiling, as a minimum, and this is true for both VFR and IFR.
