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Old 4th Jan 2006, 13:45   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 584
PA28-161 POH Revision

Any Warrior operators out there may not be aware that there was a revision to the POH issued in March 2005 (revision number depends on which POH number it is).

Unfortunately the only way you can find out about this is when the Flight Manual Status report comes round at CofA renewal time. This is because the UK Piper dealers do not have an amendment subscription service for flight manuals and the CAA Flight Manual department don't tell anyone (unlike when an emergency AD is issued).

The CAA can't tell me what the revision is concerned with (it may be to correct a typo, it may be don't fly too close to the sun) and can't fax a copy of it to me.

We have been waiting for our revisions since mid November - apparently the guy who deals with it at Piper is running 3 months behind schedule. You can't email Piper direct as all emasils have to go through the dealer.

By the letter of the law any flight manual not to the latest revision means the aircraft flies illegally which means by my reckoning most of the Warriors in the country! Funny old world isn't it....
smarthawke is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2006, 13:55   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 11,389
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Why on earth doesn't Piper just put it on their website, then we can all help ourselves?

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2006, 14:04   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 21,921
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

So, are Piper admitting to corporate liability for failing to disseminate this information?
BEagle is online now  
Old 4th Jan 2006, 14:17   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 36
Posts: 3,113
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

I can never understand why it is so difficult to get hold of electronic versions of POH's. Genghis' solution is the ideal one for any manufacturer that is still in business.

Is it because then they can't charge exorbitant fees for copies, or am I just a cynic?
Say again s l o w l y is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2006, 17:13   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 11,389
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Given what they charge for new aeroplanes, I wouldn't have thought the price of a few hundred new manuals per year was either here nor there.

In the meantime the thousands of pilots who never get access to the POH, or if they did wouldn't read it, are of-course blissfully unaffected.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2006, 08:30   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 584
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

When I ordered the revisions for our aircraft from the UK dealer I was told it was 5 for each copy and I had to give them the aircraft s/n so you can't just photocopy the revision for each aircraft. Then subsequently I was told that they could send me a copy and didn't need a serial number (that was when I found all the PA28-161 POHs were affected - we have two types on our fleet, different MAUW)). At the moment I'm watiting to see what arrives then I can work out if I have to order more copies.

Some manufacturer websites are excellent like the Lycoming one with most of the Service Letters, Bulletins etc available on line plus a load of other handy hints. Piper just want to sell you a new airplane and after that, tough!
smarthawke is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2006, 09:50   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AOG
Posts: 195
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

i am looking for a flight manual for the warrior.
i have been checked on the 161 and have about 10 hours P1 on it now. but couldn't get hold of a copy of a FM.

any idea where i can get one please lads, gals?
cheers
nelson
hekokimushi is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2006, 10:46   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 11,389
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Quote:
Originally Posted by hekokimushi
i am looking for a flight manual for the warrior.
i have been checked on the 161 and have about 10 hours P1 on it now. but couldn't get hold of a copy of a FM.
any idea where i can get one please lads, gals?
cheers
nelson
NAME AND SHAME.

I want to know which flying school has checked you out in an aeroplane without giving you access to the flight manual........

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2006, 11:12   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 584
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Flight Manuals are normally only available from the manufacturer and are issued for a particular serial number aircraft.

As Ghengis says, someone is playing the game if they let you fly the aircraft and don't grant you access to the flight manual - it must exist as it forms part of the CofA.

The best thing to do is ask the flying club if you can borrow the FM one rainy day and the aircraft is on the ground and photocopy it. Remember that aeroplanes differ so the FM must be the right one for that particular aircraft.

As I mentioned earlier, later PA28-161s have the battery on the firewall (rather than under the back seat) and a MAUW of 2440lbs (others are 2320ish lbs IIRC). The lightweight ones can be modded so you have to know what's what for a particular machine.
smarthawke is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2006, 18:45   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AOG
Posts: 195
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

ohoh.. nono.. i have access to the FM from the flying school. just want to own one thats all.

nelson
hekokimushi is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2006, 20:08   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 11,389
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

I confess that I found mine via Amazon zShops, but various pilot shops offer a supply service for new-original POH, try Transair and AFE. I'd expect to pay around £70.

Or just copy the flying school's, which may possibly trangress copyright law, but on the other hand everybody does it and it's unlikely to offend anybody so long as it's used for the intended purpose.

Not the official document, but AFE also do a rather nice pilots guide for £13 by Jeremy Pratt. I like Jeremy's books, my only complaint being that he never includes emergency procedures - presumably for liability reasons.

A certain PPruner also occasionally has useful such things on her eBay shop (and check the rest of eBay whilst you're at it - they occasionally appear).

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2006, 14:59   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Darkest Midlands
Posts: 52
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

If you go to the webpage mentioned above, and click on the link for the tie down kit, it comes up with a note:

Quote:
Note: The seller of this item is away until 01 February 2007. You may purchase the item, but there may be a delay in processing your order
That's quite some holiday. I would be a bit miffed if I had bought something on ebay, and had to wait 13 months for the orde to be processed. Wow, these helicopter pilots really do have too much money.
troddenmasses is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2006, 15:29   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 11,389
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Hmm, I shall mention it, but I think they mean 2006.

G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2006, 21:30   #14 (permalink)

The Original Whirly
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Just W of TNT, Peak District, UK
Posts: 4,233
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Quote:
Wow, these helicopter pilots really do have too much money.
I wish!!!! Sorry about that; I must have been even more confused than usual. Date is now changed to 1st Feb 2006. And I'm not going on holiday, just moving house. And everything's in boxes, and I can't cope with orders as I don't know where anything is. But hopefully my shop will be back to normal before the beginning of Feb; I'm just playing safe....especially after one Ebayer complained violently at not receiving her order when I really was on holiday - and it said so on the listing! But anyway, I don't have a PA28 POH; sorry - though I'll keep my eyes open for one.

Cheers,

Whirly
Whirlybird is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2006, 13:02   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 667
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

Interesting site, may be a bit expensive with shipping but less than the £70 quoted here

http://pilotmanuals.com/store/cart.p...tegory_id=1968
chrisbl is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2006, 01:13   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Cloud Nine
Posts: 356
Re: PA28-161 POH Revision

I've got a spare Official Piper PA28-161-2 Info Manual, which is basically the POH published in book form.

Published 1981 - applies to ac with MTOW of 2325 lbs

Cost me 10 - will accept same plus P+P
Same is currently advertised on ebay at $36

http://pilotmanuals.com/store/cart.p...tegory_id=1968
PH-UKU is offline  
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