JAA PPL in France ?
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JAA PPL in France ?
Hi all............ new to PPRuNe and would appreciate any advice :
I am currently living and working in Paris. Although I will be returning to the UK sometime next year, I thought I would investigate completing my PPL in France as I have a bit of spare time ahead prior to the end of this year.
However, I would like some advice on whether undertaking training in France - obviously in JAA format - is going to be a big problem when I return to the UK.
I have numerous questions.... but here are some for starters:
> Will a French JAA PPL be recognised by the CAA in UK?
> Can I take CAA exams but do French flying training ?
> What about medicals - heard they are easier in France - do the CAA recognise French medicals?
> Is the flying training similar - e.g. if I only complete half the course, will my hours from France be recognised by the CAA if I then finish the PPL in the UK?
> With a French JAAL PPL, can I hire a G-xxxx a/c in the UK?
> How do I (or do I need to) convert a French JAA PPL to a UK CAA JAA PPL?
Also - there are a couple of local airfields just to the west of Paris (suburbs) - anyone know about these or could recommend a local flying school?
Sorry if these appear stupid and basic questions - but it's all a bit of a mine field for a newbe like me. I just want to fly and get a PPL, but perhaps I need a PhD in JAA licensing first !!
Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated.
T 42
I am currently living and working in Paris. Although I will be returning to the UK sometime next year, I thought I would investigate completing my PPL in France as I have a bit of spare time ahead prior to the end of this year.
However, I would like some advice on whether undertaking training in France - obviously in JAA format - is going to be a big problem when I return to the UK.
I have numerous questions.... but here are some for starters:
> Will a French JAA PPL be recognised by the CAA in UK?
> Can I take CAA exams but do French flying training ?
> What about medicals - heard they are easier in France - do the CAA recognise French medicals?
> Is the flying training similar - e.g. if I only complete half the course, will my hours from France be recognised by the CAA if I then finish the PPL in the UK?
> With a French JAAL PPL, can I hire a G-xxxx a/c in the UK?
> How do I (or do I need to) convert a French JAA PPL to a UK CAA JAA PPL?
Also - there are a couple of local airfields just to the west of Paris (suburbs) - anyone know about these or could recommend a local flying school?
Sorry if these appear stupid and basic questions - but it's all a bit of a mine field for a newbe like me. I just want to fly and get a PPL, but perhaps I need a PhD in JAA licensing first !!
Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated.
T 42
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Belgium
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If you obtain a JAR PPL then it is recognised in the UK, and you can fly any JAA member country's registered a/c around all the other JAA Countries. I have a UK issued JAA and fly Belgian registered a/c all the time, including to UK, France, Germany and the Netherlands.
As to mixing the course and exams, I think it is possible, "theoretically". However administrative mechanisms have a way of generating difficulties, in that the forms which are required by one country are not the same as used in another country (including the language used!). For example, any JAA Flight Examiner can sign my certificate of experience to re-validate my UK issued JAR licence - however the Belgian examiners won't because that's not the administrative way they do it here, and no Belgian FE has been told his signature is OK for the UK - nor has he seen form SRG1119!
AFAIK, you must do your training at a JAA approved school. However the country is not relevant. As long as you pass the exams, and show you have the hours, nav-ex and skill test you "should" be able to ask for a JAR PPL(A).
As for the medical, I think there is an implication in the wording that means the "initial" medical must be carried out by the license issuing country. Thereafter, future medicals can be carried out by an approved JAR medical examiner. However, once again, the administrative mechanisms and papers to be filled in are not consistent across countries. You could be pioneering the application of the rules.
I would expect any hours you do in France to be recognised by the UK, when applying for a UK-JAR PPL.
In general, the UK seems to be the most flexible and understanding in its approach - just don't try ringing the SRG, though, unless you want 25 minutes of Greensleeves on an international call. If you write to them they will just send you a Guidance document in return, or refer you to the Lasors document on their web site.
To the best of my knowledge (and experience) this is the way it works - but others may have better information.
GB
As to mixing the course and exams, I think it is possible, "theoretically". However administrative mechanisms have a way of generating difficulties, in that the forms which are required by one country are not the same as used in another country (including the language used!). For example, any JAA Flight Examiner can sign my certificate of experience to re-validate my UK issued JAR licence - however the Belgian examiners won't because that's not the administrative way they do it here, and no Belgian FE has been told his signature is OK for the UK - nor has he seen form SRG1119!
AFAIK, you must do your training at a JAA approved school. However the country is not relevant. As long as you pass the exams, and show you have the hours, nav-ex and skill test you "should" be able to ask for a JAR PPL(A).
As for the medical, I think there is an implication in the wording that means the "initial" medical must be carried out by the license issuing country. Thereafter, future medicals can be carried out by an approved JAR medical examiner. However, once again, the administrative mechanisms and papers to be filled in are not consistent across countries. You could be pioneering the application of the rules.
I would expect any hours you do in France to be recognised by the UK, when applying for a UK-JAR PPL.
In general, the UK seems to be the most flexible and understanding in its approach - just don't try ringing the SRG, though, unless you want 25 minutes of Greensleeves on an international call. If you write to them they will just send you a Guidance document in return, or refer you to the Lasors document on their web site.
To the best of my knowledge (and experience) this is the way it works - but others may have better information.
GB
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NL/Amsterdam
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I had a question about the validity of some of my
lessons in Holland (hours flown, the theoretical
courses and the R/T).
The CAA will point you to their webpage and to their
LASORS documentation.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/default.asp (Lasors)
They recommend you look at Lasors section A8 and C1,
which basicly says that (if I understand it correctly), that
the CAA will count it. So my advise would be to request
information from your local French school, and than ask
the CAA if they will allow you to 'finish' off in the UK.
As the CAA in the is the more professional organisation,
I strongly believe it is better to have you PPL issued and
dealt with by them.
(to the brits who think differently, I bet you have no continental
experience
)
lessons in Holland (hours flown, the theoretical
courses and the R/T).
The CAA will point you to their webpage and to their
LASORS documentation.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/default.asp (Lasors)
They recommend you look at Lasors section A8 and C1,
which basicly says that (if I understand it correctly), that
the CAA will count it. So my advise would be to request
information from your local French school, and than ask
the CAA if they will allow you to 'finish' off in the UK.
As the CAA in the is the more professional organisation,
I strongly believe it is better to have you PPL issued and
dealt with by them.
(to the brits who think differently, I bet you have no continental
experience
)
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Hi - there is to my knowledge no problem in training in France then transferring to the UK CAA. The CAA has a more "open" view than most Continental CAAs. Obviously, better do your initial medical in France: an initial JAA Class I is priced £300, versus £400 in Gatwick. For a class II, ask you chosen flight club.
Training in France WILL save you money: as French flying clubs are non-profit associations, they don't pay (and therefore, don't charge) VAT; hence flight hours are about 20% cheaper. The Warrior 161 I sometimes rent from Aeroclub Henri Guillaumet in Lognes (LFPL), just East of Paris, is priced at 107 Euros/hour (wet). That's £69, or about 25% cheaper than in Britain. The Robins used for instruction here go for 90 Euros/hour wet (£60), the Archer II for 122 Euros (£81).
There are no landing fees for based aircraft and the airfield is France's busiest GA airfield, with about 140,000 movements a year, ATC, ground freq, ATIS (in French and English), hard (albeit short) runway, hangarage for all based aircraft, and 8 flight schools/flying clubs to choose from - plus a good restaurant. One important detail though: even though French ATC is IMHO second best only to British ATC, it's all easier at smaller GA airfields if you do speak French...
Cheers
P.S.: more info, PM
Training in France WILL save you money: as French flying clubs are non-profit associations, they don't pay (and therefore, don't charge) VAT; hence flight hours are about 20% cheaper. The Warrior 161 I sometimes rent from Aeroclub Henri Guillaumet in Lognes (LFPL), just East of Paris, is priced at 107 Euros/hour (wet). That's £69, or about 25% cheaper than in Britain. The Robins used for instruction here go for 90 Euros/hour wet (£60), the Archer II for 122 Euros (£81).
There are no landing fees for based aircraft and the airfield is France's busiest GA airfield, with about 140,000 movements a year, ATC, ground freq, ATIS (in French and English), hard (albeit short) runway, hangarage for all based aircraft, and 8 flight schools/flying clubs to choose from - plus a good restaurant. One important detail though: even though French ATC is IMHO second best only to British ATC, it's all easier at smaller GA airfields if you do speak French...
Cheers
P.S.: more info, PM
Last edited by FougaMagister; 23rd Aug 2003 at 22:23.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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May I suggest caution in taking your INITIAL medical in one country, but intend applying for the licence in another.
There is a reference in the CAA UK Medical web pages See here
JAA Medical Sub-Committee News 2001
Here is an extract from that News:
It was dated June 2001, but I have not seen any updates to indicate that the issue has been resolved - hence the caution!
There is a reference in the CAA UK Medical web pages See here
JAA Medical Sub-Committee News 2001
Here is an extract from that News:
Three states brought cases to the committee where the UK had issued initial Class 1 medical certificates to applicants who, according to the three states, did not meet the standards in JAR-FCL 3. This may become more of a problem since (in June 2001) the FCL committee approved NPA 14. This contains the requirement (JAR-FCL 3.065) that all applicants for a licence must have their initial medical done in the state of licence issue. Thus applicants may (very logically) do an initial medical in their home state before starting to train for a professional licence. If, subsequently, they decide to train (and eventually apply for a licence) in another JAA state, they would have to take another initial medical examination in the ‘training’ state. What would happen if there was a disagreement between the two states over an applicant’s fitness? Which state would decide? The UK CAA Medical Division feels that amendments to the regulations, if they do not effect flight safety, should simplify the certification process, rather than make it more complicated. They will continue to oppose this requirement.
It was dated June 2001, but I have not seen any updates to indicate that the issue has been resolved - hence the caution!
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GroundBound - I had my initial Class I medical done in Paris (Dec. 2000), then when the time came for my PPL to be issued (Sept. 2001), the CAA Licensing Dept. asked for an initial medical done again, this time in LGW; the (much more helpful) CAA Medical Dept, however, agreed that both medicals being to the same high standards (even though the French Class I wasn't fully JAR at the time), simply RENEWING it with a British AME would do. So no £400 trips to LGW - but it was a bit of a grey area, and you might get a different answer this time round...
Cheers
Cheers
