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Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

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Old 7th Apr 2017, 11:50   #1 (permalink)
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Deaf-blind man kicked off flight for travelling alone

How can this not be illegal?

Man who is deaf and blind 'kicked off easyJet flight moments before takeoff over safety fears' - Mirror Online
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 14:14   #2 (permalink)
 
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How can this not be illegal
There's usually a caveat in the legislation surrounding this about the passenger being " self reliant" or not.

If someone can communicate with the crew, look after themselves (loo etc, ) and get to an emergency exit unassisted the are usually be regarded as "self reliant" and are OK to travel alone.

If OTOH the individual isn't self-reliant ( for any reason) there's usually a mandatory requirement for a travel companion.

Turning your comment on it's head it's possible it would have been illegal for the airline in question to carry him "solo".
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 14:22   #3 (permalink)
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I was thinking of the Equality Act, 2010 and how it prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. Deafness and blindness are both disabilities under the act.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 15:02   #4 (permalink)
 
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If I have time I'll have to check but what I've paraphrased above is from our current Ops manual.

I think the aviation law is written bearing in mind that there's obviously two sides to this, it's not just the diasabled pax, there are the rights etc of other passengers and crew.

For example what if the individual's disability might impend others evacuating? Would the law demand that the Cabin crew to provide direct help to the individual in the event of an evacuation (and possibly risk there own lives doing so?)
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 15:26   #5 (permalink)
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Report states that said offloaded pax had travelled alone many times previously. Impending others evacuating can be alleviated by giving him a window seat. That way, he's not trapping others between him and the aisle.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 15:36   #6 (permalink)
 
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Impending others evacuating can be alleviated by giving him a window seat.
Practically - true. But there's still a requirement (in our books at least, which reflect the legislation changes over recent years and have certainly been "lawyered") that if a passenger is not able to find an emergency exit unassisted they are regarded as not being self reliant and must have a travelling companion.

Maybe with this chap being alledgedly partially sighted he's managed (as many do) over the years but it does seem he needed assistance to the aircraft door on the flight in question and maybe that's why he rang bells with the crew on this flight, it then (legally) becomes a decision call for the PIC.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 16:01   #7 (permalink)
 
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How can this gentleman be briefed on security issues? How can he count, or be told, the number of rows to an exit? Would he be able to use the O2 masks if they were deployed. How can he follow the instructions if a crew member in an emergency?

How would the crew communicate with him?

I think, in this case, it was appropriate that he have a travel companion.

Apparently U2 has already offered him, and a companion, free tickets in addition to a full refund for his original ticket.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 17:25   #8 (permalink)
 
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For example what if the individual's disability might impend others evacuating? Would the law demand that the Cabin crew to provide direct help to the individual in the event of an evacuation (and possibly risk there own lives doing so?)
Cabin crew are not expected to rescue PRM pax. they are known as burners for a reason

and before anyone slags me off Mrs Scr is a WCHS
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 17:41   #9 (permalink)
 
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Cabin crew are not expected to rescue PRM pax.
Not sure if that was a direct reponse to me or not, but yes, you are right - my comment was a somewhat rhetorical question for the OP.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 09:36   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
I was thinking of the Equality Act, 2010 and how it prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. Deafness and blindness are both disabilities under the act.
You can discriminate providing that there is a legal reason for doing so and I would have thought that having a passenger who might not be able to evacuate an aircraft if needed would be both dangerous and illegal.

Quote:
15 Discrimination arising from disability

(1) A person (A) discriminates against a disabled person (B) if—

(a) A treats B unfavourably because of something arising in consequence of B's disability, and

(b) A cannot show that the treatment is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 11:20   #11 (permalink)
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The answer probably lies within the Air Law (or whatever it now called) that and the Ts&Cs require pax to follow the ORDERS of the Captain.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 12:35   #12 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
I was thinking of the Equality Act, 2010 and how it prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. Deafness and blindness are both disabilities under the act.
The term were 'reasonable' may apply, as the passenger cannot hear or see, therefore he cannot assimilate what is being said or see what is demonstrated, so therefore it maybe 'reasonable' under their duty of care to refuse him travel without a companion who is responsible for their safety.

He is, alone unable as others have said unable to self evacuate or assimilate instructions therefore he maybe or would be a hazard to himself or others.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 13:53   #13 (permalink)
 
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Air law and equality acts aside, the captain still need to be careful about not falling foul of the increasing raft of legislation both in the EU, US and elsewhere regarding "Passengers with Reduced Mobility" (relevant bits of which nowadays often are contained within most Airline's Ops Manual)

In any event for example REGULATION (EC) No 1107/2006 of the European Council states (amongst any other things...):

Quote:
Disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility should therefore be accepted for carriage and not refused transport on the grounds of their disability or lack of mobility, except for reasons which are justified on the grounds of safety and prescribed by law. Before accepting reservations from disabled persons or persons with reduced mobility, air carriers, their agents and tour operators should make all reasonable efforts to verify whether there is a reason which is justified on the grounds of safety and which would prevent such persons being accommodated on the flights concerned.
Full text is here, Article 4 might be of interest:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...6R1107&from=FR
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 14:38   #14 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
Report states that said offloaded pax had travelled alone many times previously. Impending others evacuating can be alleviated by giving him a window seat. That way, he's not trapping others between him and the aisle.

Firstly, just because he claims he traveled alone "many times" doesn't mean he actually did. Not only that but even if he has, that doesn't make it right and this time he has not been able to.

Secondly, had there been an incident and everyone got out of the plane, bar this gentleman, then how would that have looked for EZY? You can be certain that the family would have taken legal action and the media would have questioned why he was allowed to travel on his own.

They made the right call.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 15:19   #15 (permalink)
 
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Firstly, just because he claims he traveled alone "many times" doesn't mean he actually did. Not only that but even if he has, that doesn't make it right and this time he has not been able to.
Maybe his eyesight has deteriorated, maybe as you say he' got away with it in the past. Without passing judgement on this case I've certainly been aware of a few rare instances where it has become clear after departure that a PRMs disability has been somewhat more severe than was "advertised", causing problems for both the cabin Crew and other passengers..

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Apr 2017 at 17:06.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 20:11   #16 (permalink)
 
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It is down to the crew on the day. What clearly didn't happen was proper communication between the person who booked the ticket and EasyJet. As EJ don't know the passenger, it falls on the booker to start the communication. For me I want the person flying to accept that in an emergency thy may not be able to get off. I'll give the a personal and very invidudual briefing, but I'll make no promises. I also do this for every blind passenger I fly. (I'll also give then a tour of the outside if possible; they haven't clue what the engine is like or what shape things are). But as I am responsible for for those on the flight, I do things as I see fit, as did this crew and for that they are to be commended.

But the problem of doing your job properly is that you will get criticism. A lady who was "horizontally tall" insisted she sat on a row by an emergency exit. But there was no way she was going to get through the hatch unless she fasted for a few years. She was not happy being told that she was not going to sit anywhere near any emergency exit. I discriminated against her because of her size she said. I totally agree. I did. I'd prefer not to, but I had no other options available.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 07:19   #17 (permalink)
 
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It is another unforseen circumstances of the EU's requirement that airports must deal with PRMs from parking lot to aircraft door. It's possible that no U2 staff interacted with this gentleman before he arrived at the gate.

Not saying it's a bad rule, it isn't.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 09:49   #18 (permalink)
 
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It strikes me as utterly tragic that we have got ourselves so brainwashed with this political incorrectness madness that we are conditioned, pavlov like, to use words like "discriminate" when discussing a matter of basic common sense and/or legal requirement (conditions of carriage).
No one has been "discriminated against" here if the person wasn't complying (voluntarily or involuntarily, it clearly matters not) with Easyjet's regs. It's a matter of safety and rules, that's all. The Captain can't possibly fall foul of any "equality" laws - if the Ops Manual says he can't do something he can't do it, plain and simple.

Is this person "discriminated against" by not being allowed to drive a car, is a 9 yr old "discriminated against" by not being able to fly alone? What a preposterous idea!

Let's stop this silly self-indulgent habit of wailing into our hands whenever someone, for good sound common sense reasons can't do something most others can. Different abilities allow/disallow some activities in some people, that's just life. People are generally only prevented from doing things others find ordinary for good reasons, as here. Even if they are prevented from doing so it is never done to "discriminate" - that word when used in the emotive sense as here means the wilful and unfair selection of a person in order to disadvantage them. It is clear that this is an utterly inappropriate expression to use in a case like this.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 10:13   #19 (permalink)
 
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Agree entirely nofly, problem is whinges like this seem to sell papers and some papers don't need much excuse to have a "pop" at their least favourite airline - so a minor story possibly started as facebook whinge, gets circulated, papers pick it up, they get one person's version of a story and print... bingo, the outrage bus rolls..
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 10:33   #20 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
I was thinking of the Equality Act, 2010 and how it prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. Deafness and blindness are both disabilities under the act.

You think that someone who is deaf and blind should be given a driving licence and the right to be out on the roads in a 4x4 ?
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