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Reduced Cabin Crew so Passengers Left Behind

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Reduced Cabin Crew so Passengers Left Behind

Old 8th Mar 2017, 11:30
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Reduced Cabin Crew so Passengers Left Behind

My sister in law just returned from Geneva. Apparently one of the cabin crew was injured on the outbound flight so for the return flight passenger numbers had to be reduced.
Would this be for covering the exits (in case of Emergency Evac) or would it just be for passenger service?
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 11:46
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It's to do with safety, not service. Operating with reduced crew is fairly rare. It's just a way of getting back to base to get crew. Unfortunately it means some pax may get left behind but it's often a choice of that's or a severe delay or cancellation.
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 13:21
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Thanks HM. I remember now - so many passengers per cabin crew for safety.
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 13:42
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Usually 50 pax per CC iirc
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 22:51
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Its treated the same as having a door unserviceable, passenger numbers are reduced to what's allowed with an exit unavailable. Basically it's a get you home solution and can't be used at a base where replacement crew could be called out.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 02:03
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I guess depending upon the country of registration of the aircraft but in UK, and other countries, the rule is based upon the number of fitted seats and not the number of bums occupying those seats.

So, as an example, a 148 seater with only 50 passengers requires a minimum of 3 cabin crew.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 07:04
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Yes, it varies from country to country.

According to ICAO SARPS (Annex 6):

"An operator shall establish, to the satisfaction of the State of the Operator, the minimum number of cabin crew required for each type of aeroplane, based on the seating capacity or the number of passengers, in order to effect a safe and expeditious evacuation of the aeroplane and the necessary functions to be performed in an emergency or a situation requiring emergency evacuation."
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 07:40
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For example, a theoretical aircraft seats 154. It needs four cabin crew wether it has 1 passenger or 154 passengers.

If a crew member goes sick, you're limited to 150 passengers for a flight only to get you back to a crew base. The crew member then gets replaced or in exceptional circumstances, the four seats get turned into tables. The additional 4 passengers get offloaded. So you have 154 seats, 150 passengers and 3 cabin crew.

In normal ops its 1 per 50 seats. If your crew member goes sick and you're not at a crew base, then you can reduce the crew by 1 to get the ratio of 1 crew member per 50 passengers.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:15
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There is occasionally a further restriction on some aircraft types associated with doors i.e. all doors (or door pairs) that are required to be manned must be so. Going back to my 757 days, you could never have less than 4 crew, whatever the pax load - 4 pairs of doors, none of which were overwing/self operating type.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:30
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Back in my DC10 days 8 doors = 8 cabin crew
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:49
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Re the previous two posts, I believe the regulation in some jurisdictions (Australia rings a bell, for example, though I may be wrong) is:

Narrow-bodies: one cabin crew member per pair of (opposite) doors

Wide-bodies: one cabin crew member per door

Can anyone confirm ?
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:57
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You're asking that I stretch my memory back some 35 years but as I recall, for a 345, indeed 380, seater DC10 the normal minimum was 8 cabin crew (for 8 doors) but I seem to recall that when the hit the fan, dependent upon the 1 per 50 rule, we could operate with less but the pax needed to be seated away from the inoperable door(s).
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Old 12th Mar 2017, 11:21
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I have just talked again to sister in law and she says it was 120 or 130 passengers with some left behind because they were a cabin crew member short. The mystery deepens?
She doesn't know what aircraft type but it was GVA - LHR.

Last edited by Mike6567; 12th Mar 2017 at 11:55. Reason: spelling
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Old 12th Mar 2017, 12:57
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If we knew the airline we might work out the aircraft type and calculate accordingly. As for her guesstimate of passengers actually on board, I would respectfully question it's accuracy unless she counted them all.
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Old 12th Mar 2017, 13:27
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango
If we knew the airline we might work out the aircraft type and calculate accordingly.
Presumably BA on GVA-LHR, hard to imagine that Swiss would start a rotation with one crew member down.
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Old 12th Mar 2017, 13:38
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True! Suffering from cough virus and brain not fully engaged today!
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Old 12th Mar 2017, 23:43
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Take an A320 for instance. Minimum crew is 4. If a crew member is sick or injured downroute then there is a special dispensation to reduce crew compliment by one but only if pax figure is reduced to max 150. This dispensation can only be permitted away from a crew base.

For an A319, and presumably a 320 too, three crew operation (1 crew member per 50 pax) is permitted but max capacity of 150.

This is the case in the UK anyway.
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Old 13th Mar 2017, 07:30
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Originally Posted by easyflyer83
For an A319, and presumably a 320 too, three crew operation (1 crew member per 50 pax) is permitted but max capacity of 150.
The A319 configuration that BA use on non-domestic routes has 123 seats (and therefore presumably three cabin crew) so one crew member down would allow only 100 passengers.

More likely to have been an A320 or a 177-seat A321.

Of course if the OP's sister could remember the the date/time of her flight, we would know for sure.
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Old 13th Mar 2017, 09:54
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Sister in law was pretty certain it was 120 or 130 so I was puzzled as I was expecting the 1 per 50 rule. She is off to Rome now so I will check with her when she gets back - or maybe she will get some info from the Rome bound crew.
She did say there was a pilot (presumably dedheading) sitting at the front of the business(?) section. I see in the rumours section a pilot did the safety briefing on a 747.
I wonder if necessary you could have a spare pilot make up the 1 in 50 rule.
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Old 13th Mar 2017, 16:15
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If the crew compliment was three (I don't think any BA mainline flight has 3 crew) then you cannot reduce to 2 crew. 3 on a A319/320 is the absolute minimum. Any less, you aren't going anywhere.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but as silly as it may seem, I don't think a pilot can operate as cabin crew without some sort of extra training. Their SEP training is abbreviated and refreshed infrequently. In a reduced crew scenario however it would be prudent of the cabin crew to ensure he/she was sat at an exit.
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