passenger allowed in the flight deck: common sense prevailing
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passenger allowed in the flight deck: common sense prevailing
this report describes how ex-US Air Force Master Sergeant Melvin Rector, a 94-yo WWII veteran, B17 gunner and radio operator, returned to England from Florida to again see the base he flew from. While over the Atlantic, the American Airways captain reportedly invited him to the flight deck: WWII gunner revisits country he helped save, then dies quietly there It's nice to see common sense and respect at work. Sadly, Mr Rector died while in England. Congratulations to the AA captain for his wonderful gesture.
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We would all do that Cooper. But, we live in a place of envy. Certain airlines in certain places would have you for this, Mate of mine, extending the same courtesy was reported by CA of certain background. He was in the office pretty smart & reminded of what he already knew. Warning letter placed on file ! The Reportee was miffed that on some other occasion, her request to let he boy-friend in on the FD for landing in their home town was denied.
de minimus non curat lex
Authorised entry on to the FD on a UK reg ac, by a non approved person (as defined) has resulted in the past in more than a warning letter on the HR file.
We live in interesting times.
You do wonder what the response would be if say a member of the cabinet was allowed to Jump Seat. A rapid fax from the Dept of Transport approving the minister?
We live in interesting times.
You do wonder what the response would be if say a member of the cabinet was allowed to Jump Seat. A rapid fax from the Dept of Transport approving the minister?
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Despite an appeal, the MOD's answer remained somewhat evasive - surprise, surprise!
So I still don't know.
But I can guess...
Thank you Melvin, and all your buddies.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...may-usaaf.html
And thanks to the AA Capt and crew and all those concerned with the funeral.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...may-usaaf.html
And thanks to the AA Capt and crew and all those concerned with the funeral.
Last edited by uffington sb; 27th May 2016 at 10:50. Reason: I meant to write that when I posted, but I had dust in my eyes.
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A very moving story.
I would like to think others would have the courage to use the same common sense.
Sadly, I too have flown with a few cabin crew who would report such things. You soon get to know who they are.
I would like to think others would have the courage to use the same common sense.
Sadly, I too have flown with a few cabin crew who would report such things. You soon get to know who they are.
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Flew Miss Pamela Anderson back from Auckland,few years back..
Boy did I want to let her sit on the flightdeck for the landing...much encouragement from my young FO,who,pointed out that my usual landing style would have been interesting in its secondary effects!!!!
It was only the forward vision of her future recollection,during some TV chat show,with the mention of such a kind crew from XX Airline,that made me see sense!....Common sense can ruin a good day!
Boy did I want to let her sit on the flightdeck for the landing...much encouragement from my young FO,who,pointed out that my usual landing style would have been interesting in its secondary effects!!!!
It was only the forward vision of her future recollection,during some TV chat show,with the mention of such a kind crew from XX Airline,that made me see sense!....Common sense can ruin a good day!
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Has anyone ever pointed out to the morons making these rules up that the kamikaze pilots of 9/11 were not on the flightdeck by personal invitation of the captain? I'd certainly like to.
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The rules have very little to do with aviation security.
The security the rules protect is the job security of politicians & civil servants who have to be seen to be doing something when questioned by the media.
So no room at all for common sense.
The security the rules protect is the job security of politicians & civil servants who have to be seen to be doing something when questioned by the media.
So no room at all for common sense.
A and C as usual has it in one.
Arguing about common sense/captains discretion/authority is futile and will hold no sway with many national authorities. You won't end up visiting Head Office for a "chat" about a letter going on your files, you'll basically be choosing your window...and never mind the crew, these days other pax on board are just as likely to "dob" you in.
And yes it's sad...
Arguing about common sense/captains discretion/authority is futile and will hold no sway with many national authorities. You won't end up visiting Head Office for a "chat" about a letter going on your files, you'll basically be choosing your window...and never mind the crew, these days other pax on board are just as likely to "dob" you in.
And yes it's sad...
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If I wanted to sit on the FD again I would need to apply to be CC, pass security and SEP checks and once qualified ask for the experience on my first flight ... it's usually agreed. Naturally, I would have to pass the security checks .. just like those who caused this situation some years ago.
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No not sad, it's the rules which are for the guidance of the wise. If you claim your job entitles you to claim you are wise, that's sad. If you truly are wise then you will know what to do when confronted with the decision 😉
Well done that wise AA captain. Those fearful of being "dobbed in" - you know the rules so you you can survive until you are wise.
Well done that wise AA captain. Those fearful of being "dobbed in" - you know the rules so you you can survive until you are wise.
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I appreciate the sentiment but if it's ok for one person to visit the FD in flight then surely it must be ok for anyone to visit the FD in flight? Where does it end, and who should and who should not be in the FD?
For me it's easy. Operating crew only. No exceptions. Although some may believe these rules are to keep civil servants in a job I believe that is very wrong. A sterile cockpit keeps Me, my colleagues and my passengers safe. Long may it continue.
For me it's easy. Operating crew only. No exceptions. Although some may believe these rules are to keep civil servants in a job I believe that is very wrong. A sterile cockpit keeps Me, my colleagues and my passengers safe. Long may it continue.
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A few years ago I made a Freedom of Information Request to the UK MOD asking whether the Prime Minister, Tony Blair, had ever been invited onto the flight deck of any RAF plane that he had been flying on.
The Prime Minister is commander in chief of the armed forces, i.e. boss of the military. Would he need to be invited or just command entry? He could change whatever SOP's for a few moments to suit.
Was there not a case a few years ago of a UK a/c on a private charter for a football club; one of the players asked to visit the flight deck - damn it they'd paid for the a/c - it was allowed and the captain fired?
The Prime Minister is commander in chief of the armed forces, i.e. boss of the military. Would he need to be invited or just command entry? He could change whatever SOP's for a few moments to suit.
Was there not a case a few years ago of a UK a/c on a private charter for a football club; one of the players asked to visit the flight deck - damn it they'd paid for the a/c - it was allowed and the captain fired?
RAT
Yep, not naming names but it was a high'ish profile "ex-Gulf War hero" and it was pretty much as you describe..Whether he was wise or not, sad or not I don't know 
Was there not a case a few years ago of a UK a/c on a private charter for a football club; one of the players asked to visit the flight deck - damn it they'd paid for the a/c - it was allowed and the captain fired?
The Prime Minister is commander in chief of the armed forces, i.e. boss of the military. Would he need to be invited or just command entry
Not in the UK! It is Auntie Betty's toy box - I swore to obey Her, her heirs and successors - not a lying politician!
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I know what you mean.
If Auntie Betty had really been in charge common sense might have prevailed and the Gulf War enquiry might never have been necessary. A smart chat with Sadam about how he owes the Brits one, don't be a naughty boy, give us your dirty toys, or else Liz will unleash her klingons on him and he will regret it.
But that didn't happen. I'm not sure Tony asked permission to borrow Liz's ball to go and play his own game.
If Auntie Betty had really been in charge common sense might have prevailed and the Gulf War enquiry might never have been necessary. A smart chat with Sadam about how he owes the Brits one, don't be a naughty boy, give us your dirty toys, or else Liz will unleash her klingons on him and he will regret it.
But that didn't happen. I'm not sure Tony asked permission to borrow Liz's ball to go and play his own game.