£300 Price hike
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I always look at number of engines vs number of seats and how likely am I to survive an emergency evacuation (down the slides) taking in to consideration parents grabbing toddlers, idiots going for their hand baggage and duty frees in overhead bins and just the general panic of an emergency situation.
According one shall not find me flying in an A380 anytime soon, B777-200 is acceptable, B777-300 is questionable but give me a short A340 anytime you like
According one shall not find me flying in an A380 anytime soon, B777-200 is acceptable, B777-300 is questionable but give me a short A340 anytime you like
With oil at $44 a barrel how can the airlines justify fares like these? They say they hedge their fuel purchases but bet your life the prices will never come down because we have short memories. Some still have the temerity to charge a fuel surcharge.
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Airline pricing is not cost plus. It's what the customers are prepared to pay. Many airlines are experiencing loads in excess of 80% something that was impossible in the 'golden days'. Combine that with supply and demand and you get the prices we are seeing.
Or would you prefer a return to the days of IATA airline fare and rate agreements made subject only to government approval?
Fuel surcharges and all other fare components are just part of the total. And it is the total that's important, not how they calculate it.
Or would you prefer a return to the days of IATA airline fare and rate agreements made subject only to government approval?
Fuel surcharges and all other fare components are just part of the total. And it is the total that's important, not how they calculate it.
But this thread started with a customer complaining about the cost of a ticket? It borders on racketeering. I don't advocate the old days or a cartel but prices today are a rip off.
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Fuel surcharges and all other fare components are just part of the total. And it is the total that's important, not how they calculate it.
Some airfares are also advertised as "plus taxes and surcharges" in order to appear cheap. The travel agents share of the booking market is in decline, with more people booking directly, especially with low cost airlines. Fares can be advertised as dirt cheap but the the extras get loaded on at the final stage.
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Something, anything, whether it be a house, a car, a famous painting or indeed a flight is worth as much as someone, anyone, is prepared to pay for it.
These days I am a self-employed hotelier, my business overheads remain the same year round but we have our high season(s) where I know that I can charge higher room rates, I'm not ripping anybody off, I made the financial investment to develop my business and I'm entitled to charge whatever room rates I like and healthy occupancy rates demonstrate this point.
These days I am a self-employed hotelier, my business overheads remain the same year round but we have our high season(s) where I know that I can charge higher room rates, I'm not ripping anybody off, I made the financial investment to develop my business and I'm entitled to charge whatever room rates I like and healthy occupancy rates demonstrate this point.
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One hidden cost of pricing is the actual cost of distribution of fares into airline's own; other airlines; GDS ; and agency systems.
Most network airline distribute their fares through ATPCO (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) ATPCO is not-for-profit, owned by the airlines. They charge the airlines a fraction of a cent per fare record whenever the base fares are updated. They then distribute the updated records to the above.
Airlines literally have millions of fare records between every on-line city pair served, in three (or four) class of service, in multiple flavours (PEX; APEX; NONREF/REF/etc. So to adjust all of an airline's fares can cost $10s or $100s of thousands. The cost to update a surcharge is on the order of $100 (or so, it has been a while). Many airlines no longer call these 'fuel' surcharges - they are 'due-carrier' surcharges.
Discounts - such as child discounts (there are others) usually don't apply to the surcharges so by splitting them out they reduce the actual discount.
And some airlines apply the carrier imposed surcharges on frequent flyer tickets etc.
Now, I'm not defending any of these practices - I think some are actually immoral.
But this is why we still have 'surcharges' - which are rarely seen by anyone before ticket issuance. In Europe and N. America (plus many other jurisdictions) the airlines are required to show the consumer final price for transport, inclusive of these surcharges.
If Airlines Sold Paint.
Customer: Hi. How much is your paint?
Clerk: Well sir, that depends on a lot of things.
Customer: Can’t you give me an approximate price?
Clerk: Our lowest price is our introductory special at $12 a gallon. After that we have dozens of different prices up to $199.
Customer: What's the difference in the quality of the paint?
Clerk: Oh, there’s no difference. It's all exactly the same stuff.
Customer: Well, in that case I'll take your $12 paint.
Clerk: Well actually the $12 variety is only available on our website. If you want to buy it here at the store you’ll be charged an additional $20 Customer Convenience Fee
Customer: So if I go home and get it off the website, its only $12?
Clerk: That’s correct sir - plus a Credit Card Usage Fee of $6 and then there’s standard Shipping and Handling of $15.
Customer: What? So in other words buying online would cost me almost exactly the same as what I’d have to pay here in the store?
Clerk: I suppose so, but if you buy it here you get to use it immediately. Online purchases take ten business days to get to you - unless you pay the optional $25 Express My Paint Fee.
Customer: You've got to be kidding me!
Clerk: Well no sir, but it’s academic anyway as right now the $12 paint is completely sold out in both places.
Customer: That’s BS. I’m looking at shelves full of the stuff!
Clerk: Ah, but that doesn't mean it’s available for sale. We sell only a certain number of introductory priced cans on any given day. Oops, look at that! It just became available again - at $17.50.
Customer: C’mon! You mean to say it went up while I’m standing here?!
Clerk: ‘Fraid so. Inventory control changes our prices all the time. I strongly recommend you purchase your paint as soon as possible as it could go up again. How many gallons do you want?
Customer: Well, maybe three gallons. No, make that four, I don’t want to run out. I assume I can return anything I don’t open?
Clerk: Certainly sir. The $12 paint is non-refundable, but if you return it within 48 hours you will be entitled to a $5 credit towards the future purchase of another gallon of the same color at the same or higher price.
Customer: That’s crazy. In that case I’ll just give any unopened cans to my brother as he’s planning to repaint his home soon.
Clerk: Sorry sir, no-can-do! Our terms and CANditions – that’s a little in-house joke – prohibit paint transfer. It is strictly for the use of the original purchaser.
Customer: But wait a minute, I hadn’t spotted those "Paint Sale - $9.99* a Can" signs over there? That sounds like a much better deal.
Clerk: Ah yes, that's from our low cost paint division. The asterisk denotes that the cans are actually half-gallons and the price is based on a minimum purchase of two. There is also an additional Environmental Fee of $5 per can, a non-refundable Can Deposit of $3.50, a Paint Facility Charge of $5 and if you want more than one color, the second has a $25 surcharge and the third is $50 extra.
Customer: This is utterly ridiculous. To hell with this! I'll buy what I need somewhere else!
Clerk: Well sir, you may be able to buy paint for some rooms from another store, but you won't be able to find paint for your connecting hall and stairway anywhere but here. And I should also point out that if you want Uni-Directional paint it is priced at $249 a gallon.
Customer: I thought your most expensive paint was $199!
Clerk: That's only if you paint non-stop all the way around the room and back to the point at which you started. Stairways and hallways are considered one-way exceptions to the rule.
Customer: So, if I buy the $199 paint and use it in my hallway what are you going to do about it - send some goons in to paint over it?
Clerk: Wow, I believe you're getting it now sir. But no, please, that would be plain silly. We'll simply charge you a Direction Adjustment Fee plus the difference to $249 on your next purchase.
Customer: Next purchase? No way! I’m out ‘a here
Clerk: At Skyhigh Paints we never forget you have a choice, so thanks for shopping with us. Have a nice day!
Sound at all familiar?
Clerk: Well sir, that depends on a lot of things.
Customer: Can’t you give me an approximate price?
Clerk: Our lowest price is our introductory special at $12 a gallon. After that we have dozens of different prices up to $199.
Customer: What's the difference in the quality of the paint?
Clerk: Oh, there’s no difference. It's all exactly the same stuff.
Customer: Well, in that case I'll take your $12 paint.
Clerk: Well actually the $12 variety is only available on our website. If you want to buy it here at the store you’ll be charged an additional $20 Customer Convenience Fee
Customer: So if I go home and get it off the website, its only $12?
Clerk: That’s correct sir - plus a Credit Card Usage Fee of $6 and then there’s standard Shipping and Handling of $15.
Customer: What? So in other words buying online would cost me almost exactly the same as what I’d have to pay here in the store?
Clerk: I suppose so, but if you buy it here you get to use it immediately. Online purchases take ten business days to get to you - unless you pay the optional $25 Express My Paint Fee.
Customer: You've got to be kidding me!
Clerk: Well no sir, but it’s academic anyway as right now the $12 paint is completely sold out in both places.
Customer: That’s BS. I’m looking at shelves full of the stuff!
Clerk: Ah, but that doesn't mean it’s available for sale. We sell only a certain number of introductory priced cans on any given day. Oops, look at that! It just became available again - at $17.50.
Customer: C’mon! You mean to say it went up while I’m standing here?!
Clerk: ‘Fraid so. Inventory control changes our prices all the time. I strongly recommend you purchase your paint as soon as possible as it could go up again. How many gallons do you want?
Customer: Well, maybe three gallons. No, make that four, I don’t want to run out. I assume I can return anything I don’t open?
Clerk: Certainly sir. The $12 paint is non-refundable, but if you return it within 48 hours you will be entitled to a $5 credit towards the future purchase of another gallon of the same color at the same or higher price.
Customer: That’s crazy. In that case I’ll just give any unopened cans to my brother as he’s planning to repaint his home soon.
Clerk: Sorry sir, no-can-do! Our terms and CANditions – that’s a little in-house joke – prohibit paint transfer. It is strictly for the use of the original purchaser.
Customer: But wait a minute, I hadn’t spotted those "Paint Sale - $9.99* a Can" signs over there? That sounds like a much better deal.
Clerk: Ah yes, that's from our low cost paint division. The asterisk denotes that the cans are actually half-gallons and the price is based on a minimum purchase of two. There is also an additional Environmental Fee of $5 per can, a non-refundable Can Deposit of $3.50, a Paint Facility Charge of $5 and if you want more than one color, the second has a $25 surcharge and the third is $50 extra.
Customer: This is utterly ridiculous. To hell with this! I'll buy what I need somewhere else!
Clerk: Well sir, you may be able to buy paint for some rooms from another store, but you won't be able to find paint for your connecting hall and stairway anywhere but here. And I should also point out that if you want Uni-Directional paint it is priced at $249 a gallon.
Customer: I thought your most expensive paint was $199!
Clerk: That's only if you paint non-stop all the way around the room and back to the point at which you started. Stairways and hallways are considered one-way exceptions to the rule.
Customer: So, if I buy the $199 paint and use it in my hallway what are you going to do about it - send some goons in to paint over it?
Clerk: Wow, I believe you're getting it now sir. But no, please, that would be plain silly. We'll simply charge you a Direction Adjustment Fee plus the difference to $249 on your next purchase.
Customer: Next purchase? No way! I’m out ‘a here
Clerk: At Skyhigh Paints we never forget you have a choice, so thanks for shopping with us. Have a nice day!
Sound at all familiar?
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"prices today are a rip off."
nonsense - prices today are lower in real terms than they're ever been - in fact on soem longhaul they're cheaper in sticker values as well
In the USA average cost per mile dropped from 32 cents to 15 cents from 1970- 2011
It's possible to fly London -Singapore for less in STICKER prices than it cost in 1985
and we'll not even THINK about Ryanair..............
nonsense - prices today are lower in real terms than they're ever been - in fact on soem longhaul they're cheaper in sticker values as well
In the USA average cost per mile dropped from 32 cents to 15 cents from 1970- 2011
It's possible to fly London -Singapore for less in STICKER prices than it cost in 1985
and we'll not even THINK about Ryanair..............
Thread Starter
Well, having accepted I cocked up not purchasing the £600 ticket, I decided to make the most of having a good choice of other airlines/routes etc, so I 'think' (remember - a womans prerogative to change her mind), I'm going to try Emirates A380 London - Dubai, then their 777 to JNB. Returning non stop back to London with SAA, at around £880.
Or, I'll do KLM...
Or I'll hedge my bets and wait and see if there is another BA sale after christmas. ...without any further whinging when the prices go onwards and upwards. They are at approx £950 at the moment.I believe the term these days is 'suck it up'.
Or, I'll do KLM...
Or I'll hedge my bets and wait and see if there is another BA sale after christmas. ...without any further whinging when the prices go onwards and upwards. They are at approx £950 at the moment.I believe the term these days is 'suck it up'.
Thread Starter
Well, I bought a ticket.
Paid £880. Few reasons I chose this route:
I get to fly Emirates, (tick), on the A380 (tick), and have chosen a great window seat - 46a (tick), followed by the 777 to JNB. I understand Emirates could be the only airline to have Economy on the whole of the lower deck..., consequently I a near the front, which is nice.
I return on the direct SAA flight to LHR
So, although it was £280 more than the original BA flight, I do get to fly on a couple of airlines of my choice, that I haven't done before.
Having booked online, there was a slight technical glitch, so called the Emirates 'phone number on the website, and was within approx 30 seconds talking to a very helpful lady indeed. So that impressed me. It was also nice to choose the seat, without having to pay extra (on both Emirates and SAA).
After all that, got an email today, telling me about the exciting BA sale - sods law, the price has gone down to £600 again, which it was originally, when I was procrastinating
Paid £880. Few reasons I chose this route:
I get to fly Emirates, (tick), on the A380 (tick), and have chosen a great window seat - 46a (tick), followed by the 777 to JNB. I understand Emirates could be the only airline to have Economy on the whole of the lower deck..., consequently I a near the front, which is nice.
I return on the direct SAA flight to LHR
So, although it was £280 more than the original BA flight, I do get to fly on a couple of airlines of my choice, that I haven't done before.
Having booked online, there was a slight technical glitch, so called the Emirates 'phone number on the website, and was within approx 30 seconds talking to a very helpful lady indeed. So that impressed me. It was also nice to choose the seat, without having to pay extra (on both Emirates and SAA).
After all that, got an email today, telling me about the exciting BA sale - sods law, the price has gone down to £600 again, which it was originally, when I was procrastinating
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I know a guy who flies to Jo'burg all the time on that routing - he says it s a bit longer but soooo much cheaper than BA and sooo much better than SAA that it's a no-brainer these days
Thread Starter
I'm off again tin March. And I relented....and bought a ticket with BA.
Why did I do it? I think I just couldn't be arsed flying via another airport, and opted for the direct route. We shall see, but again, as long as I have my window seat, I'm not too fussed about the rest.
I only paid £486 for the ticket, but that was with £90 off for those avios points.
Still like Emirates though, will be interesting to compare the flight I had in their A380 with the upcoming one with BA.
Why did I do it? I think I just couldn't be arsed flying via another airport, and opted for the direct route. We shall see, but again, as long as I have my window seat, I'm not too fussed about the rest.
I only paid £486 for the ticket, but that was with £90 off for those avios points.
Still like Emirates though, will be interesting to compare the flight I had in their A380 with the upcoming one with BA.
Last edited by Helol; 2nd Mar 2017 at 19:12.
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We regularly fly to SA and almost always choose Virgin and pay the extra to go Premium which comes in around £1200 each. If it were significantly different I would look around elsewhere. Sometimes it's nice to book a year ahead and know you've got it even if you lose a few quid on the way. The car hire back in Feb last year for a month was £600 but after Brexit went up to £836 so should have seen that one coming.
I'm conscious of any delay and wouldn't favour a stop-off somewhere else so interested how you found it. Part of me wants to see somewhere else as you have done, another part of me wants to stop-over a few days, and the third part thinks it's a few days off the whole trip. Decisions, decisions...
I'm conscious of any delay and wouldn't favour a stop-off somewhere else so interested how you found it. Part of me wants to see somewhere else as you have done, another part of me wants to stop-over a few days, and the third part thinks it's a few days off the whole trip. Decisions, decisions...
