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AA pilot to pax: "You can't see the stripes"?

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AA pilot to pax: "You can't see the stripes"?

Old 27th Apr 2015, 15:50
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AA pilot to pax: "You can't see the stripes"?

Do all American Airlines pilot have this type of attitude? I was at DFW Terminal D18 last Friday for a trip to Seattle. AA canceled my flight at the very last moment, ruined a one-day trip that I had meticulously planned months ahead of time, AA refused to rebook me even on sister carriers or non-direct routes, and then AA refused to offer any refund or credit back and then had the audacity to proceed to continue to charge me extra money for the nonexistent premium aisles seats that never materialized on the plane that was never sent and never showed up, for a flight that was canceled but not rescheduled.

No one from AA called me to rebook flights. I received a terse last minute email stating that the flight AA2449 was canceled, and that if I had questions to call their 800 number. The number ended up being an automated answering machine that said agents were too busy, and instead of putting in on hold or in a queue it would force-ably hang up and disconnect on me each time I called. So I had no choice but to wait in line at their customer service in hopes of speaking with someone in person.

The funny thing is later we found out that they actually never even sent the plane. Since the flight from DFW to SEA is about four or five hours, AA must have known way ahead of time that there was no way AA2449 from DFW to SEA would be able to make it. Since it was AA who never even dispatched the plane in the first place, yet they still sent me fraudulent "on time" notices all the way up to almost the last minute prior to boarding, directly depriving me of the reasonable opportunity to seek other travel options and arrangements, perhaps even last minute books with other airlines.

Dallas being one of AA's major hubs, I was surprised to find out that they only had one customer service center at Terminal D and it was only at Gate 24. At the time it was manned by one only AA rep and then later on increased to a measly grand total of two AA customer service agents. The line was literally hundreds of people long and I stood for two hours before speaking with anyone from AA.

Finally when it was my turn, I encountered a rude customer service agent (Connie) who stated that she didn't want to deal with me and called for a manager. When the "manager" finally arrived he wouldn't tell me his first name (badge only said Mr. M) and stated that I had purchased a standard fare which was a non-refundable ticket. He admitted that there was no flights they could put me on that night. I told him if they couldn't get me out there would be no point in my still going and that I wanted a refund. He then proceeded to shove me a piece of paper with another 800 number for me to call once I got home.

I was effectively turned away without being helped, without being rebooked, and without given any credit or refund. As irony would have it, on my way out of the airport, at around Gate D18, I saw what appeared to be an AA representative at one of the gates /counters that didn't have a long line. Having been tired and exhausted, I still wanted to ask one last time and perhaps give it one more attempt. When approaching the counter, I realized the AA personnel was repeatedly pointing to what appears to be his watch, but he was wearing one of those over-sized jackets and it would have covered any watch that he would have worn. It seemed like he was pointing to the time, but I was tired and confused and so approached closer to ask him if he could help me out. It was then that he remarked that he was a pilot, and before I could even apologize for misidentification he retorted: "you don't see the stripes?" while angrily pointing at his long sleeve. I bet he treats the flight attendants the same way. The guy forgets that it is because of the passengers that he even has a job or a profession in the first place. Why do AA pilots have this sense of conceited self-entitlement and haughty "I'm too good for you" attitude?

When I finally got home and called the 800 number that the AA "manager" M had given to me on a piece of paper, I found that it was an invalid number! Go figure. I then called Orbitz (I originally booked the AA flight on Orbitz online) and spoke with an Orbitz rep who tried to contact AA on my behalf to give me a refund, only to find out from the Orbitz rep. that AA was going to put Orbitz on an hour hold so he told me sorry but he wasn't able to be on hold for AA for one hour. I also went online to AA website to file a complaint and to request customer service via an online form but never heard back.

To add insult to injury, I woke up the next morning to find out that not only did not give me any credit or refund, they proceeded to charge my bank card for an additional extra charge of $50 (beyond the base ticket fare that I already paid for) for nonexistent "premium" aisles seats that never materialized on the plane that was never sent and never showed up, for a flight that was canceled but not rescheduled.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 17:17
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Wow. Not that I live in that part of the world but if I'm travelling domestic in the US ever again I won't go AA.

Aren't they One World Alliance? That's pretty shocking.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 17:26
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I booked my flight last year,with USAir for a trip to USA in 6 weeks time.
USAir have now become AA since!
I hope I don't get crap service now as the flight numbers have changed to AA from AWE which was USAir.
I am flying from Manchester UK to St Louis via Philadelphia. Done this trip 10times now with only one instance of problems which was last year when the PHL to STL leg got cancelled due to weather issues, USAir were great! They put us on the early morning flight next day & in a hotel for the night at their expense.

I do hope they resolve your issue.

If I get any problems with my vacation flights it will be the last time I use this carrier!
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 17:35
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It totally came out of the blue... Based on months of flight records, there was a reasonable expectation of the flight being on time and no indication and no statistically reasonable basis to believe that my flight would ending up getting canceled. I had set up alerts, AA emailed me all the way up to one hour prior to boarding that everything was "on time" then suddenly emailed me stating that flight was canceled.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 17:37
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AA never called me. The only thing I ever got from them was an email stating flight is canceled and that IF I had any questions that I could call the 800 number.

I did call the 800 number numerous times at the airport that night, the automated message system dropped my call and hanged up and disconnected on me each and every time.

That is why I had to stand in line for TWO hours at D24. Only to be shoved a piece of paper with another 800 number after the AA rep refused to help me and escalated to a "manager". The "manager" might as well have been the paperboy because all he did was shove me a piece of paper. And I'm thinking to myself, I waited in line two hours for this?

No one offered to rebook me. No one contacted me back. AA repeatedly refused any refunds. My calls to that 800 number didn't go through. I submitted a compliant online via the online form and have never heard back.

https://soundcloud.com/user832863127...-support-calls



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Old 27th Apr 2015, 18:28
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Just playing devils advocate because I was not there so... But maybe if it was a later departure there were NO other routings that could get you there that night, so they couldn't put you on another flight. The customer service agents can't give refunds, and there is sure no way you would ever have a refund credited back to you by the next morning . You will get your full refund , and I think this may have been a case of heads colliding... You have already stated there were hundreds of people in front of you and after an hour you got to speak to someone, so imagine what frame of mind they are in after being yelled at by hundreds of people, now you are also tired and irritable and well it isn't hard to see how things can deteriorate
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 20:34
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Wow planckepoch. That's some bad luck! Unfortunately, one of the things we see (via this forum) is that many carriers and airports keep up the 'on time' until it is long past 'time'. There are complex reasons why they do this.

One of them can be that the aircraft to operate your flight might not have been the inbound from SEA. It could have been another inbound route, or a machine coming out from an overnight maintenance check. So jus tlooking at the paired flight number is not always reliable.

I agree that you are likely to get your money back and wait a few days before shouting further.

All of that said, I think the pilot did AA a big disservice. He could have said, "I'm sorry but, I'm flight crew. I can see a member of our ground staff over at desk #."
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 23:10
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They treat their domestic passengers like this and complain when people choose to fly Emirates instead when they go abroad.

As the Americans say "Go figure"
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 02:03
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Sounds like a horror story.
Everything went wrong and then some.
You were lied to, AA were rude and you got screwed...

I work for AA.
We try to take care of problems, nobody is out to screw pax and lie cheat and steal.
DFW is a big base and many times there is spare planes to be substituted if an incoming goes tech. Sometimes it is seamless. Other times weather and ATC kicks in to throw sand in the machinery and a domino effect could happen.
Things are scheduled pretty tight to keep cost down. After all, pax demands rock bottom ticket prices and by God, they also want First Class service even if things go wrong at the lowest price possible.

As for the Captain pointing to his stripes: Don't blame the airline or company policies for that.
I have been behind the counter hundreds of times to use the computer and pull up flight plans, or just check my schedule, then pax come cruising up to the counter to get a boarding card, ask for gates or bitch about something. We are very used to it and the standard response is: Please talk to the agent, he (she) should be here shortly.
Or I just point to the Agent at the next gate 30 feet away and say: Talk to him, he knows everything..
If you have been around airports a few times you should be able to recognize a uniformed pilot, stripes and all.
If not, look for an ID badge with big letters saying CREW, if still in doubt, look for hat and / or stripes. If all of the above indicates you are looking at a pilot, he or she just may be one.
If you still think this is a gate agent, wait until he / she is looking up from the computer screen and says: Can I help you as he / she is reaching out for your boarding pass or your ID / passport.
(If that does not happen, it just may be a crew member behind the counter getting an update on his / her schedule, or checking the latest weather, whatever)
Best of luck next time.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 04:41
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The Dallas/Fort Worth area was hammered with thunderstorms last Friday. I was on their 8:30 departure from Houston to DFW. The aircraft came down from DFW and was 30 minutes late. Just as they were ready to board the FAA imposed a ground stop for DFW arrivals. The ground stop was extended hour by hour until early afternoon. When that happens all the airline can do is react. They can plan to have some aircraft arrive to send outbound but when the ground stop is extended that plan goes out the window. And after a few hours crews start running out of duty time. The 8:30 departure finally departed at 3pm. Driving home from the airport I ran into another line of storms with 50-60 mph winds that produced tornadoes south of Dallas. Some days were not meant for flying.


That being said, I don't think your experience would have been much different if you had been on Delta if Atlanta was shutdown or United if Chicago was closed.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 08:17
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Poor attitude by gate agents is not uncommon in the USA and is certainly not exclusive to AA. I won't bore you with the details but I was recently very disappointed (putting it mildly) by the somewhat rude attitude of a couple of Delta staff at FLL. One, a gate agent, even had the audacity of accusing me of lying! And this was on a First Class ticket! These agents are paid peanuts and I guess the provision of common courtesy has a price which is no longer paid.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 14:37
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Blame the $89 fare as the root cause.

Only so much service can be provided when thousands of pax are paying bottom dollar.

Should it all have been handled better? Of course. After 35 years in this business, I can honestly say this will occur at even the "best airline" on any given day.

To answer your leading question, most AA pilots (I am one) I know would bend over backwards to help you.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 16:09
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I think your experience has become the norm for our US main line carriers.

I also no longer book through web agencies like Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity, etc. If something goes haywire, the airlines will not make accommodation for seats booked that way.

Finally, it's a mistake to look for a "customer service desk". They no longer exist. When there is a change or cancellation, immediately call the 800 number, which you have previously located and entered into your phone, and get in the phone queue. You're much more likely to succeed this way, and if you look about, that's what most of the frequent travelers are doing.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 16:13
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I would further add that as a pilot we have NO ability to actually help you. Just direct you to people that can help you.

You see us pounding away on a computer terminal and it looks like we are using the same system but we are not. Gate agents work in a partition of the grand central AA computer system called "RES". We work in something called "DECS" and though they are accessed from the same terminal, they are completely different computer systems, as each group is solving its own problems.

So we can tell you what a gate a flight is leaving from, but beyond that not so much. Furthermore, if we are at a computer terminal pounding away, we are concentrating on safety of flight issues related to our OWN flight. We are not playing tetris, surfing PPRUNE, looking at facebook, or browsing news. Distractions caused by passengers asking us things that we cannot help you with are actually a risk to flight safety. There are a LOT of calculations and considerations that go into generating or verifying a flight plan is both safe and legal, and concentration breaks are, quite frankly, detrimental to safety.

If flights are canceling, usually something is going on that is completely transparent to you as a passenger. Even if you get an explanation, its is invariably only part of the story. But it also means that our (as pilots pulling flight plans) work and stress levels are probably MUCH higher. (Airways have closed, weather at the destination, MEL issues with our own aircraft, running out of duty time, etc) All the while, people are walking up to you breaking your concentration, while you are making decisions that can truly be life and death while also under a severe time constraint. (My flight is leaving in X minutes, plus I have to find food for myself as well as handle all of my own paperwork). IF pilots are at a computer in the terminal where you can see us, we are most certainly already extremely time compressed, or we would have gone to Operations and done it in a less harried environment.

So I am sorry if you were not dealt with quickly, and I do apologize for a lack of staffing to meet your needs. Furthermore, I realize by definition every travel experience cannot be perfect, though we all wish it was. But some consideration and thought before jumping all over some already harried pilot whose job it is to get you there safely is ALSO in order.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:18
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The 1-800 number is ok if you are a U.S. Citizen with a U.S. Phone, not good for us international visitors who would need a mortgage to phone it & wait in the que for an agent to become free to deal with you.
Last year our flight got cancelled at PHL, a customer service agent sorted us out with next day flights & hotel, but I asked if I could ring the guys meeting us to stop them going to STL to meet us as it's an hour & a half travel from their home to airport, I was told I couldn't use the phone, so had to use my UK phone! Cost more than I would have liked!
Prepared this year, I got a us PAYG phone just in case.

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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:22
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SKYPE! or something there abouts.

7 of 9

When traveling abroad set up a skype account, or something thereabouts (I am not actually advertising skype, I just use that as a verb to refer to internet calling)

Then from your Iphone or Ipad or similar wifi internet device (find a starbucks or a macdonalds, they are everywhere in the world) you can internet call for a few pennies.

However, getting a cellphone locally is certainly a more robust and better plan, as long as you aren't country hopping. I haven't found a good solution for that yet...
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:31
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Wifi wasn't working in the terminal I was in at the time, I did however get in touch via FaceTime off the iPad at the hotel which saved me a bit.
It was that initial phone call to stop them leaving I had to do.
As I said I am prepared this time, 13 trips over there in 13 years, that was the first time I had had a big hold up! Been lucky I guess.

Weather can play havoc, I know as I am a PPL, I like flying while over there & have to keep a look out for your ever changing weather while I fly.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 17:49
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Wino's response was sort-of OK up until

But some consideration and thought before jumping all over some already harried pilot whose job it is to get you there safely is ALSO in order.
You're a passenger whose flight has been cancelled, you've been given ZERO assistance after waiting for 2 hours and you see someone in uniform - not immediately identifiable as flight deck - behind a desk and go to ask a question.

As a passenger, I don't see that as "jumping all over someone"

As a company employee, it's YOUR JOB to provide as much information as you can to a passenger, even if it's only "I'm sorry, I can't actually help you, but here's someone who can"

Whether you're a check-in agent, ops agent, pilot or senior management.

I talk from some experience in the latter role....
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 18:08
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Wino, I'm also a pilot in the US. Granted I'm a lowly regional puke, but it is this sort of attitude that I see on a daily basis from many of my colleagues that is resultant in our industry constantly being ranked one of the lowest in terms of customer satisfaction in the US. I am astounded by the ongoing arrogance of some of our pilots in this country, and I hate to say it, but more often that not it is those who are flying the heavier metal that are the worst offenders. Taking ten seconds to direct someone elsewhere isn't going to disrupt our day too much. Granted, I know that once I answer one person's query I often end up with a number of others asking questions, but at the end of the day it is those people that fly with us who pay our wages.

I consider myself extremely fortunate to soon be leaving my current job to start with British Airways. A huge part of my interview process was based on customer service and what we, as pilots, can do to make our passenger's journeys easier and more pleasant. BA has in fact gone above and beyond on this point, introducing it's customer service 'hallmarks' to ensure that flight deck crew are more visible to passengers and offer assistance, no matter how small, when required. This is something passengers directly told BA that they would like to see. It is something I think we should desperately be looking to introduce on this side of the Atlantic too.

Without doubt the lack of proper staffing, poor gate agent attitudes and tough working conditions make our jobs tough at times in the US, but a bit of common courtesy and pointing someone in the right direction is a small act that has a big impact on our customer's perception.

'planckepoch', I'm sorry for your negative experience. I would tell you to try flying with United or Delta instead, but alas I don't think your experience would be much different. The US industry is coasting on record profits and appalling customer service. Unfortunately I don't see it changing any time soon.
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Old 28th Apr 2015, 18:32
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REV man

If I am not banging away at a computer I will GLADLY help anyone. If I am doing complex calculating in my head and working an old fortran computer system at the same time, I might very well get short with you. Sorry, it really is a safety of flight issue.


CRM is all about breaking the mistake chain at its earliest point. The earliest point is flight planning (well some would say bidding...), and something that is sort of taken for granted these days. If a pilot is at a computer and someone interrupts him, it is a flight risk. maybe a small one, maybe a large one. If that pilot is flying Dallas-Austin for the 4th time today a pretty small one. If he's about to roll off 3 or 4000 miles including an ETOPS leg a much greater one.

Sadly there aren't enough computers or remote "Mini OPS" where these things can be done out of the view of the public. There should be, but that costs money. Furthermore Flight planning software should ALSO be in plain english, but sadly the 40 year old computers that run most airlines in the USA (and FAA) are not. So its all fortran or worse.

If the pax had waited quietly when the pilot working the computer was done I'm sure he would have addressed his need in a courteous manner. I don't know any pilot who would not. I do know a few who get short when interrupted in front of the computer, and if they are of the type that prefers not to multi task, far better to be short with the pax, then make a mistake in the flight planning. Dead passengers never come back, everyone else (sadly or fortunately depending on your POV) comes back for the next fare sale...

Frankly if management would spend some more dosh to make sure ALL flight planning was done in an OPS or on your own personal computer rather than in the terminal in front of the pax (A totally unacceptable method) we wouldn't be having this conversation and safety would improve. In this day an age a few pennies a ticket would pay to push equip all IPADs with cellular and push the flight planning software over the air to the IPAD.

And furthermore, I too have been on both sides management, Union and pilot... Customer service is important, but it is SECONDARY to safety.
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