Hidden-city ticketing and the Streisand effect: a cautionary tale
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I took a lot of interest in this subject in the '70's and support CAPOT's description of fictitious waypoints.
The specific example given was a flight from New York to Los Angeles, using Albuquerque as the fictitious destination.
In the fare system a routing was established New York to Albuquerque, this being just inside the mid-west fare zone. However the passenger ticket was issued to Los Angeles as this was the necessary intermediate point to complete the route. There was no crime in not issuing the Los Angeles to Albuquerque leg.
As CAPOT inferred this was in the era when Travel Agents were King. The internet has closed that scheme but does of course provide so much more options, that's progress.
The specific example given was a flight from New York to Los Angeles, using Albuquerque as the fictitious destination.
In the fare system a routing was established New York to Albuquerque, this being just inside the mid-west fare zone. However the passenger ticket was issued to Los Angeles as this was the necessary intermediate point to complete the route. There was no crime in not issuing the Los Angeles to Albuquerque leg.
As CAPOT inferred this was in the era when Travel Agents were King. The internet has closed that scheme but does of course provide so much more options, that's progress.
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Sultan Ismail
Those were the days of heavy regulation where US domestic fares were fixed by the CAB (and International fares fixed by IATA, to be approved by CAB and other governments). Since the fares were identical on all airlines there was an incentive for agents/airlines to find fares for their customers that others couldn't match. Tickets were priced by hand, with few quality checks, and no computer loaded with all the up to date information that must be used.
Those days are long passed, and fares were substantially higher in real terms than today.
Those were the days of heavy regulation where US domestic fares were fixed by the CAB (and International fares fixed by IATA, to be approved by CAB and other governments). Since the fares were identical on all airlines there was an incentive for agents/airlines to find fares for their customers that others couldn't match. Tickets were priced by hand, with few quality checks, and no computer loaded with all the up to date information that must be used.
Those days are long passed, and fares were substantially higher in real terms than today.
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fares were substantially higher in real terms than today.
Those high fares meant that 70% load factor counted as full; they meant a civilised and pleasant experience that made an air trip an exciting and enjoyable event.
I know; silly old git hankering after a lost world. But let's not forget that it was the airlines, especially the locos, that led the race to the bottom; they generated a demand for awful, mass air travel by anticipating that if they created that product, stacked high and sold cheap, it would create its own, new demand. And they were right. Decent airlines were forced to follow them down the steepening slope to the bottom, and the rest is history.
It took Al Qa'ida to create a totally new security experience in airports, but the airports themselves contributed to the race to the bottom when they were taken over by shop-keepers, and turned into the dreadful emporia of over-priced tat that they are today.
Sorry; it takes little to trigger that rant!
ExXB - thanks for reminding me of using the allowable mileages....that in turn recalled that huge volume the IATA fares manual, and wading through it with a calculator handy....
IATA had its faults, but the fact that I could sit in my office, with a Fares Manual, IATA airlines schedules, and a telex, and put together an itinerary using a dozen carriers, all confirmed bookings, hotels too maybe, and issue a ticket on IATA paper that would be honoured round the world, was probably the greatest global unifying factor that there has ever been, and ever will be. Of course the confidence that they would be safe on all those airlines came from ICAO's work; another huge unifying factor.
Last edited by Capot; 17th Jan 2015 at 16:27.
The fares to BBB are irrelevant in this analysis. What people are able and willing to pay to CCC is.
Airlines often advertise different options and rates for a flight from AAA to CCC, either direct or with stops in BBB (sometimes BBB1, BBB2, .... etc.). I understand that the product difference actually being sold is the total trip duration and avoiding the need to make multiple connections. But consumer law (at least here in the USA) protects customers from being advertised one thing and then sold another. Even if you got them to sign a contract allowing the substitution of a different product at the vendor's discretion (AAA through Lower Slobovia to CCC).
Its interesting because at times I have negotiated intentional stopovers at intermediate cities when purchasing tickets. Round trip on BA, SEA-LHR-AMS and back. After getting the basic route established, I just asked the ticketing agent to extend the connection between LHR and AMS from a couple of hours to one week. No problem.
Yes, I understand that this was the term of the final contract. And I abided by it.
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EEng. A 'stopover' is different from a connection. The discussion at hand is about a contract to transport the passenger from AAA to CCC, not involving a stopover at an intermediate point.
The airline would have a price for AAA to CCC with a stopover at BBB. It probably would not be the same as the price for AAA to CCC without the stopover, but they would have a price.
In fact the airline would likely have a price for just about every conceivable journey one can take using their services. And their expectation is that one will pay their price for the journey that one intends to undertake, not the price for a journey one has no intention of doing.
If the airline agrees (as in your example) to change your itinerary at the original price that is certainly their decision. You have proposed an amendment to your contract and they have agreed. But we are talking about here of passengers changing key terms of their contract without the knowledge or agreement of the airline. Contract law, even in the US, does not allow one party that freedom.
And, I apologize, before I retired I had access to files containing case law in many, many jurisdictions supporting (in some cases after numerous appeals/reappeals) what I have been saying here. I no longer have access to these files and goo-goo isn't very good when you can't recall details - such as the litigants names.
The airline would have a price for AAA to CCC with a stopover at BBB. It probably would not be the same as the price for AAA to CCC without the stopover, but they would have a price.
In fact the airline would likely have a price for just about every conceivable journey one can take using their services. And their expectation is that one will pay their price for the journey that one intends to undertake, not the price for a journey one has no intention of doing.
If the airline agrees (as in your example) to change your itinerary at the original price that is certainly their decision. You have proposed an amendment to your contract and they have agreed. But we are talking about here of passengers changing key terms of their contract without the knowledge or agreement of the airline. Contract law, even in the US, does not allow one party that freedom.
And, I apologize, before I retired I had access to files containing case law in many, many jurisdictions supporting (in some cases after numerous appeals/reappeals) what I have been saying here. I no longer have access to these files and goo-goo isn't very good when you can't recall details - such as the litigants names.
Last edited by ExXB; 19th Jan 2015 at 16:11. Reason: typo
If you want a short stopover, try looking for the direct fare with the longest connection times which may be cheaper than selecting a stopover.
Alternately a stopover could be cheaper than a short connection as it would be less appealing to business travellers.
Trying the above options with different airlines may have different results with a hub airline wanting to promote it's home city.
Alternately a stopover could be cheaper than a short connection as it would be less appealing to business travellers.
Trying the above options with different airlines may have different results with a hub airline wanting to promote it's home city.
Paxing All Over The World
One of the problems is that many of the websites that do comparison pricing do not show the routing and you have to work out the duration by checking dep/arr times and then offsetting the time zones THEN check against other carriers where it is a direct flight. My guess is that many folks don't know that there's a 'BBB' stop when they check in for their 'AAA' to 'CCC'.
