US fuel reserves
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 53.27N
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US fuel reserves
Recently took a flight from San Juan to Houston and due to inclement weather in the Houston area (low cloud) we were forced to hold at cruising altitude over the Gulf of Mexico for approx. 12-15 minutes. Upon taking our place in the queue for landing and being reasonably close to the ground judging by the flap setting, we suddenly banked to the right and the captain informed the passengers that we were low on fuel and diverting to Ellington Field. Upon landing we uplifted 13000 lbs of fuel and departed for George Bush.
My question is did the flight deck crew uplift enough fuel for the journey taking into account the anticipated weather on arrival, and what are the regulations regarding fuel required including diversion in the United States?
My question is did the flight deck crew uplift enough fuel for the journey taking into account the anticipated weather on arrival, and what are the regulations regarding fuel required including diversion in the United States?
My question is did the flight deck crew uplift enough fuel for the journey taking into account the anticipated weather on arrival,
Problems can start when the weather turns out worse than forecast (which believe it or not does happen
) and/or there are other problems causing delays..that can happen anywhere in the world. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but sometimes you just have to accept things aren't going to work out as advertised and diverting to another airport to uplift more fuel is the sensible thing to do....
Last edited by wiggy; 2nd Dec 2014 at 18:53.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: glendale
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you don't mention the type of plane.
it is possible that something happened at the airport to indicate a longer delay and prudence dictated a diversion.
IN the USA, airliners are dispatched with at least two people in concurrence about the amount of fuel on board. ONE is the dispatcher, the other is the captain.
THEY must agree before the plane leaves how much fuel is needed and is properly on board. AND if push comes to shove and the captain wants MORE fuel, the dispatcher will almost always concur.
YOU took off with enough fuel. But things do happen along the way. You obviously had enough fuel or you would have crashed, and not made it to another field to get more fuel.
IN the USA you must takeoff with enough fuel to get to your destination, delays you are made aware of prior to takeoff, go to an alternate airport and then fly for another 45 minutes. (assuming an alternate is needed due to wx).
I (as a pilot) have taken enough fuel, ended up in a holding pattern with an almost indefinite further clearance time due to wx. So, even with a good amount of fuel remaining, I elected to proceed to another airport for more fuel. AS SOON as I suggested this to ATC they let me out of the hold and put me number one into my original airport (no emergency).
IF you ever have questions again, you should ask the pilot as soon as you are getting off the plane...after you thank him for a safe flight.
it is possible that something happened at the airport to indicate a longer delay and prudence dictated a diversion.
IN the USA, airliners are dispatched with at least two people in concurrence about the amount of fuel on board. ONE is the dispatcher, the other is the captain.
THEY must agree before the plane leaves how much fuel is needed and is properly on board. AND if push comes to shove and the captain wants MORE fuel, the dispatcher will almost always concur.
YOU took off with enough fuel. But things do happen along the way. You obviously had enough fuel or you would have crashed, and not made it to another field to get more fuel.
IN the USA you must takeoff with enough fuel to get to your destination, delays you are made aware of prior to takeoff, go to an alternate airport and then fly for another 45 minutes. (assuming an alternate is needed due to wx).
I (as a pilot) have taken enough fuel, ended up in a holding pattern with an almost indefinite further clearance time due to wx. So, even with a good amount of fuel remaining, I elected to proceed to another airport for more fuel. AS SOON as I suggested this to ATC they let me out of the hold and put me number one into my original airport (no emergency).
IF you ever have questions again, you should ask the pilot as soon as you are getting off the plane...after you thank him for a safe flight.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 53.27N
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US fuel reserves
First, thanks for the replies.
glendalegoon
Aircraft involved was a Boeing 737-900ER N38424,
Planned flight route was 2,459 sm
Distance flown was 2,503 sm
Did get to speak to captain after landing at George Bush, but only very briefly, due to very tight flight connection! By posting this question I was not being critical, just curious as to the differences in the US to the UK! Have nothing but respect for you guys having spent 35 years in airport fire and rescue and dealing with many fuel emergencies due to weather.
glendalegoon
Aircraft involved was a Boeing 737-900ER N38424,
Planned flight route was 2,459 sm
Distance flown was 2,503 sm
Did get to speak to captain after landing at George Bush, but only very briefly, due to very tight flight connection! By posting this question I was not being critical, just curious as to the differences in the US to the UK! Have nothing but respect for you guys having spent 35 years in airport fire and rescue and dealing with many fuel emergencies due to weather.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: glendale
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well, in the real world sometimes you have to limit your fuel to just enough. otherwise you might have to leave passengers or payload behind.
some airlines are very cost conscious and too much fuel reduces profits...but, they always take enough...
there have been many times I wanted to take more fuel, but had to acknowledge I would leave some passengers behind...so I took adequate fuel and had the option of stopping along the way for more should conditions warrant.
we would all like to take so much fuel that we could hold for a couple of hours in case an airport closes in the situation where YOUR FINE SERVICES might be needed.
It is all a compromise. But as long as you don't make the TV news, you did ok...be well and thanks for your brave service.
some airlines are very cost conscious and too much fuel reduces profits...but, they always take enough...
there have been many times I wanted to take more fuel, but had to acknowledge I would leave some passengers behind...so I took adequate fuel and had the option of stopping along the way for more should conditions warrant.
we would all like to take so much fuel that we could hold for a couple of hours in case an airport closes in the situation where YOUR FINE SERVICES might be needed.
It is all a compromise. But as long as you don't make the TV news, you did ok...be well and thanks for your brave service.
AFFF, a few years back I was flying into South Bend on a regional jet in January. The weather was predicted to be horrid. Due to the suspect weather, they took on extra fuel reserves and had to kick 5 people off the airplane (50 passenger aircraft IIRC). Turns out the weather had pretty much lifted by the time we got to South Bend and we flew straight in - false alarm 
.
But always better to be safe than sorry
. But always better to be safe than sorry
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The fuel reserve requirements for turbine-powered Part 121 carriers operating to/from outside of the 48-contiguous US (e.g., from San Juan) are different from the basic requirements listed above.
- Instead of a 45 minute reserve, the en route reserve is calculated as 10% of the en route time (may be reduced with special operational specifications)
- Time to reach the most distant alternate must be added
- An additional 30 minutes of holding time must be added (sometimes called an "international reserve")
- Additional fuel for contingencies must be added; such as fuel to account for winds, traffic delays, a possible missed approach, and "any other conditions" which may delay the arrival of the aircraft
- Then additional fuel considerations may be specified by company procedures and/or requested by the Captain
These requirements are spelled out in 121.645(b) and 121.647:
121.645 Fuel supply: Turbine-engine powered airplanes, other than turbo propeller: Flag and supplemental operations
(b) For any certificate holder conducting flag or supplemental operations outside the 48 contiguous United States and the District of Columbia, unless authorized by the Administrator in the operations specifications, no person may release for flight or takeoff a turbine-engine powered airplane (other than a turbo-propeller powered airplane) unless, considering wind and other weather conditions expected, it has enough fuel—
(1) To fly to and land at the airport to which it is released;
(2) After that, to fly for a period of 10 percent of the total time required to fly from the airport of departure to, and land at, the airport to which it was released;
(3) After that, to fly to and land at the most distant alternate airport specified in the flight release, if an alternate is required; and
(4) After that, to fly for 30 minutes at holding speed at 1,500 feet above the alternate airport (or the destination airport if no alternate is required) under standard temperature conditions.
121.647 Factors for computing fuel required.
Each person computing fuel required for the purposes of this subpart shall consider the following:
(a) Wind and other weather conditions forecast.
(b) Anticipated traffic delays.
(c) One instrument approach and possible missed approach at destination.
(d) Any other conditions that may delay landing of the aircraft.
- Instead of a 45 minute reserve, the en route reserve is calculated as 10% of the en route time (may be reduced with special operational specifications)
- Time to reach the most distant alternate must be added
- An additional 30 minutes of holding time must be added (sometimes called an "international reserve")
- Additional fuel for contingencies must be added; such as fuel to account for winds, traffic delays, a possible missed approach, and "any other conditions" which may delay the arrival of the aircraft
- Then additional fuel considerations may be specified by company procedures and/or requested by the Captain
These requirements are spelled out in 121.645(b) and 121.647:
121.645 Fuel supply: Turbine-engine powered airplanes, other than turbo propeller: Flag and supplemental operations
(b) For any certificate holder conducting flag or supplemental operations outside the 48 contiguous United States and the District of Columbia, unless authorized by the Administrator in the operations specifications, no person may release for flight or takeoff a turbine-engine powered airplane (other than a turbo-propeller powered airplane) unless, considering wind and other weather conditions expected, it has enough fuel—
(1) To fly to and land at the airport to which it is released;
(2) After that, to fly for a period of 10 percent of the total time required to fly from the airport of departure to, and land at, the airport to which it was released;
(3) After that, to fly to and land at the most distant alternate airport specified in the flight release, if an alternate is required; and
(4) After that, to fly for 30 minutes at holding speed at 1,500 feet above the alternate airport (or the destination airport if no alternate is required) under standard temperature conditions.
121.647 Factors for computing fuel required.
Each person computing fuel required for the purposes of this subpart shall consider the following:
(a) Wind and other weather conditions forecast.
(b) Anticipated traffic delays.
(c) One instrument approach and possible missed approach at destination.
(d) Any other conditions that may delay landing of the aircraft.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the US "Flying" magazine they have a column by Les Abend who flies 777 internationally and internally for one of the big US airlines - about a third of his articles make reference to issues about fuel and diversions (planned, actual, possible)
The system is pretty full of 'planes, the problems with long taxying waits, changes in routing due to sudden changes in weather, sudden problems in weather at destinations all play hob with any planning schedule
You just have to accept that occasionally your captain will decide to play it safe and go and top up before he has to declare an emergency or worse.....
The system is pretty full of 'planes, the problems with long taxying waits, changes in routing due to sudden changes in weather, sudden problems in weather at destinations all play hob with any planning schedule
You just have to accept that occasionally your captain will decide to play it safe and go and top up before he has to declare an emergency or worse.....
